In this episode of the Mental Health Toolbox, we are talking with author, speaker, trainer, and seasoned therapist, Maggie Mullen, on her new book. Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis.
Table of Contents
Meet The Author: Maggie Mullen, LCSW. Author of Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis.
BIO:
Maggie Mullen, LCSW (they/them) is a clinical social worker, national trainer, community activist, and author of The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis. Maggie specializes in culturally responsive, evidence-based care for psychotic spectrum disorders, trauma and PTSD, the LBGTQ+ community, and formerly incarcerated people. As a training director at Kaiser Permanente, they take great pride in mentoring, training, and supervising the next generation of social workers. You can find them online at www.maggiemullen.com
People with psychosis are disproportionately overlooked, stigmatized, institutionalized, and incarcerated by society. It’s time for this to change and I’m happy to be part of a movement towards more widely available and inclusive mental health care. I’ve worked with people experiencing psychosis for over a decade. When my clients would ask me about recommendations for workbooks that might help them learn new skills or that they could use in between our sessions, I couldn’t find a single one. While there were plenty of wonderful books written for family members and mental health clinicians, no similar workbooks existed that were written for someone struggling with psychotic symptoms themselves. I wrote the DBT Skills Workbook for Psychosis to address this gap because people with psychosis deserve effective skills taught in a compassionate manner. This workbook is culturally responsive to the needs of people experiencing psychosis and their intersecting identities, meaning it’s inexpensive, easy to understand, and inclusive of cultural beliefs and practices.
https://www.maggiemullen.com/my-book
Learn More:
***Note: some of the links in this post include affiliate links for which I earn a commission when purchases are made using those links, at no additional cost to you.
Get the Book: The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis: Manage Your Emotions, Reduce Symptoms, and Get Back to Your Life
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Transcript:
PATRICK
Are you or someone you know struggling with psychosis, then stick around because in this episode of the mental health toolbox we’re interviewing, Maggie Mullen, author, speaker, trainer, and therapist, on their new book, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Skills Workbook for psychosis.
PATRICK
So let’s go.
PATRICK
Hello Thrivers and welcome back to the mental health toolbox. My name is Patrick Martin and I am on a mission to help 1,000,000 people improve their quality of life with actionable skills on personal development.
PATRICK
So let’s do it.
PATRICK
Maggie Mullen is a clinical social worker, national trainer, community activist, and author of the Dialectical Behavior therapy skills.
PATRICK
Workbook for psychosis.
PATRICK
Magee specializes in culturally responsive, evidence-based care for psychotic spectrum disorders, trauma and PTSD.
PATRICK
The LGBTQ plus community and formerly incarcerated people.
PATRICK
As a training director at Kaiser Permanente, they take great pride in mentoring, training and supervising the next generation of social workers.
PATRICK
You can find them online at www.maggiemullencom.
PATRICK
All right, welcome Maggie to the mental Health Toolbox podcast.
PATRICK
So glad you could make it today.
PATRICK
It’s an honor and a privilege to have.
PATRICK
You on I’m.
PATRICK
I’m really excited about this interview because DBT is something I’m personally fond of, having been trained in DBT and lead individual.
PATRICK
Group counseling for DBT for a couple of years I was really excited when I saw your book hit the shelves on DBT for Psychosis.
PATRICK
But before we jump in, I just want to briefly reintroduce you to our listeners.
PATRICK
You are a trainer author.
PATRICK
Therapist did I miss any?
MAGGIE
You got it all.
MAGGIE
For many apps.
PATRICK
Excellent, excellent, so we’re going to dive into all of that and this is going to be fun, so thank
PATRICK
You so much.
MAGGIE
Yeah, thanks for having me.
MAGGIE
Patrick, I really appreciate it.
PATRICK
Yeah, why don’t you go ahead and start us off by letting us know?
PATRICK
A little bit about yourself.
MAGGIE
Sure you did a great job.
MAGGIE
I am a.
MAGGIE
Typical social worker in.
MAGGIE
The sense that I do a.
MAGGIE
Lot of different things as a.
MAGGIE
Way of keeping myself.
MAGGIE
Active and excited and working on different levels.
MAGGIE
So as you mentioned, I wrote a book recently.
MAGGIE
Called the dialectical.
MAGGIE
Behavioral therapy skills workbook for psychosis so DBT skills.
MAGGIE
And that’s my most recent endeavor, and I’m I’m also a therapist.
MAGGIE
I work most of the folks with psychotic spectrum disorders.
MAGGIE
I also do gender specialty work, so working with our gender nonconforming and transgender populations here in the Bay Area in California.
MAGGIE
So we got into doing trainings recently as well, so feel like I’m.
MAGGIE
Spreading my wings into lots.
MAGGIE
Of different areas has been really very fun for me.
PATRICK
Yeah, you’ve covered a lot of ground and I love how you just say, oh, I just wrote a.
PATRICK
Book like no.
PATRICK
Big deal, you know.
PATRICK
Just tack that onto the end.
PATRICK
There that takes some time, right?
MAGGIE
Yeah, the time energy tears, I mean all of it I I think I didn’t.
MAGGIE
Necessarily set out as a.
MAGGIE
Social worker to write a book and.
MAGGIE
I actually got recruited to write it, which was.
MAGGIE
Kind of a cool phenomena.
MAGGIE
And it turns out.
MAGGIE
Writing a book is just as hard as you think.
MAGGIE
It is I really.
MAGGIE
You know, not a surprise, but we.
MAGGIE
Did most people out there in the.
MAGGIE
World, but I was like, yeah, I think I would book.
PATRICK
Do realize.
MAGGIE
Yeah, I just.
MAGGIE
Felt like yeah.
MAGGIE
Sure, we can figure it out and then I realize like, oh, it’s it is a ton of time, not just writing the things you’re excited about, but.
MAGGIE
Editing, painstakingly copy editing.
MAGGIE
Going over the same things.
MAGGIE
Over and over again.
MAGGIE
Which is the least glamorous part of the process?
MAGGIE
But it’s so cool at the end of the whole journey to have a physical manifestation of this thing that you’ve been working on for years, and so that like really warms.
MAGGIE
My heart when.
MAGGIE
I see the first copy of my.
MAGGIE
Book and actually.
MAGGIE
My parents were the first people somehow.
MAGGIE
Without a copy of my.
MAGGIE
Book I have no idea why, but they.
MAGGIE
Got shifted for.
As it should be.
MAGGIE
Me and it was very like.
MAGGIE
Yeah, this seems right.
PATRICK
No small thing or write a book and then I’m sure it’s a fantastic feeling to have it in in its true form completed.
PATRICK
Then you have to launch it.
PATRICK
Which is a whole other task, right?
MAGGIE
That is exactly right, yes, so.
MAGGIE
What I learned in this process is.
MAGGIE
That there are about a million books to get published.
MAGGIE
In EU.
MAGGIE
S alone.
MAGGIE
Every year and.
MAGGIE
So part of what you’re trying to do?
MAGGIE
As an author.
MAGGIE
It’s sell your book right like market it, tell people about.
MAGGIE
It get into the.
MAGGIE
Hands who could?
MAGGIE
Benefit and my.
MAGGIE
Book is really designed for a relatively narrow population.
MAGGIE
Right people who are experiencing psychosis their.
MAGGIE
Loved ones or klinisch.
MAGGIE
And that, I think, is a relatively narrow category.
MAGGIE
Mean but I’m.
MAGGIE
Really having to do a.
MAGGIE
Lot of work to promote.
MAGGIE
It and make sure it gets into the hands.
MAGGIE
Of people who I think.
MAGGIE
Could benefit from the most ultimately.
MAGGIE
So that has been.
MAGGIE
A learning process for me as well in addition to.
MAGGIE
The actual writing.
MAGGIE
And feel like, OK, cool it’s.
MAGGIE
Done, this is actually where the.
MAGGIE
Work starts, I think it’s to help people understand it’s a resource that.
MAGGIE
Could be useful for them.
PATRICK
Absolutely, and we can only use pointed resources such as this, and I’m trying to ask plug in that ourselves here.
PATRICK
But DBT skills for psychosis that is like niche inside of a niche.
PATRICK
Like how did that happen?
MAGGIE
I’ll give you.
MAGGIE
I’ll give you the immediate version, not the longer term or the short version of the story, but I ended up kind of going into the niche that I ended up in because I was trained as a DVT therapist during Graduate School and particularly for me.
MAGGIE
I really got excited about DVT or.
MAGGIE
Not told behavioral.
MAGGIE
Therapy because not only is it a fantastically research driven intervention that really like literally helps save life.
MAGGIE
Works, but it’s also an intervention that was.
MAGGIE
Created by and.
MAGGIE
For the people was meant to serve right?
MAGGIE
So Doctor Marshall Lenehan, the developer DBT, has you know, spoken in recent years about being hospitalized for emotion regulation issues or self harm or suicide attempts as a youth and for me I really got drawn to DVT because.
MAGGIE
They wanted to have.
MAGGIE
The input of somebody who would be.
MAGGIE
Like using this.
MAGGIE
To be part of that story, right for that.
MAGGIE
Disability justice lens of.
MAGGIE
Nothing about us without us, right?
MAGGIE
We should have.
MAGGIE
Input as consumers into.
MAGGIE
This and so part of how we ended up.
MAGGIE
Kind of marrying the world of DBHT and psychosis is really to see there are so many carve outs in.
MAGGIE
Mental health for.
MAGGIE
People with psychosis, right?
MAGGIE
There’s so many programs or research and literature, even medication trials.
MAGGIE
Things like that.
MAGGIE
You’ll often see if you look.
MAGGIE
You know, not people with active psychosis.
MAGGIE
Over and over again.
MAGGIE
And what we’ve seen is that this.
MAGGIE
Means that people are.
MAGGIE
Over sort of.
MAGGIE
Relying on institutionalization for people with psychosis or over medicating them.
MAGGIE
And you know there’s been wonderful uses for medication.
MAGGIE
They have a huge, I think, part in a lot of helping people with psychosis, but they are not the only thing that we know that people.
MAGGIE
Can benefit from psychotherapy.
MAGGIE
So for me.
MAGGIE
It was sort of about marrying these two worlds and figuring out how can we benefit people with psychosis by.
MAGGIE
Offering them skills.
MAGGIE
That can actively intervene when that cycle of emotion dysregulation happens that we know worsen.
MAGGIE
Symptoms of psychosis.
PATRICK
Yeah, and I.
PATRICK
Haven’t seen much, you know, in the way of.
PATRICK
Evidence based practices for psychosis other than set for cognitive enhancement therapy, which is even that’s relatively new ish, you know, using social groups, no surprise and computers and you know, stimulus right for schizophrenia and DBT skills.
PATRICK
So this is this isn’t just per say people with borderline personality disorder who struggle with psychosis.
PATRICK
These skills you’re seeing are applicable to the gamut.
MAGGIE
That’s what we’re going for, yeah?
MAGGIE
Essentially, it’s certainly people, there’s a.
MAGGIE
Big overlap between people who experience.
MAGGIE
Flow like personality, disorder or.
MAGGIE
Like what we call it the.
MAGGIE
Motion dysregulation issues, and.
MAGGIE
Psychosis like there’s just a huge.
MAGGIE
Two kind of overlapping circles.
MAGGIE
And So what we found is that we already kind.
MAGGIE
Of set for people.
MAGGIE
Who also were experiencing emotion regulation by PPD.
MAGGIE
They did really well in the trials with DBT therapy.
MAGGIE
Verbal tools experiencing psychosis and for people who have psychotic.
MAGGIE
Spectrum alone right so?
MAGGIE
Schizophrenia, so affective disorder, etc.
MAGGIE
What we’ve found more and more through, like emerging literature and practice, is that they really struggle with emotion regulation issues.
MAGGIE
But because they have extending those negative symptoms like a flat and affect difficulty connecting with emotion etc.
MAGGIE
We just kind of assumed for a long time in in psychology that they weren’t experiencing.
MAGGIE
Motions in the same way.
MAGGIE
We’ve learned that’s like that’s totally fake news, right?
MAGGIE
It’s not a.
MAGGIE
Real thing, they actually are really experiencing that.
MAGGIE
We just may not be.
MAGGIE
Expressing it out lately so.
PATRICK
Oh, fascinating.
MAGGIE
Yeah, the idea was like let’s use those.
MAGGIE
We know we’re.
MAGGIE
Really well for people with emotional.
MAGGIE
Regulation and offer them to.
MAGGIE
A more general.
MAGGIE
Population with the idea being the focus on skills.
MAGGIE
Rather than like the.
MAGGIE
We had here in DBT program.
MAGGIE
For some of.
MAGGIE
Whom that’s a good fit for people?
MAGGIE
With psychosis and for others it may not fit.
MAGGIE
You know the resources they have access to.
MAGGIE
You know, housing insecurity, food insecurity or common amongst full psychosis and attending a full program.
MAGGIE
It’s just maybe.
MAGGIE
Not meant for them at times.
PATRICK
Yeah, that makes.
PATRICK
I mean, it’s fantastic that you can.
PATRICK
Even dig this kind of information up through research and that brings kind of spotlight on these misconceptions.
PATRICK
You know, within within the mental health field itself and a lot of these assumptions we have about people with psychosis, right take a different approach than just medication alone, right?
MAGGIE
Yeah, exactly, and one of the the wonderful things that’s happened.
MAGGIE
I think in the past only you know two decades or so is that we’ve seen the emergence of cognitive behavioral therapy for psychosis or CBT for psychosis, and seeing again more butter churner reliance.
MAGGIE
I think less so in EU.
MAGGIE
S and more abroad and seen a.
MAGGIE
Lot in Australia in the UK where they’re.
MAGGIE
Using these approaches really actively.
MAGGIE
With folks with psychosis and seeing.
MAGGIE
Really wonderful outcomes around quality of life in particular.
MAGGIE
So helping people you know, be able to challenge their own thoughts or their distortions that are coming up as well as accepting and dealing with their symptoms differently.
MAGGIE
Or that you can live a healthy.
MAGGIE
Happy life and still hear voices, for example.
MAGGIE
I think that’s mean that.
MAGGIE
We haven’t really considered to.
MAGGIE
Be like normal quote, unquote in society, in.
MAGGIE
A lot of places.
PATRICK
Right, absolutely you know, we understand it as normal.
PATRICK
We know there’s a spectrum right between.
PATRICK
Disorganized schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder right?
PATRICK
We know that.
PATRICK
The difference, somebody schizoaffective disorder, is going to have a lot.
PATRICK
Higher capacity to engage with the world and push through and make things work in spite of the back burner psychosis.
PATRICK
They’re more tripped up by the the front end mood dysregulation.
PATRICK
Stuff you know versus somebody who’s you know, disorganized and doesn’t have the capacity.
PATRICK
So I’m wondering with what these skills is in the workbook.
PATRICK
Where’s the point of implementation when you’re working with client?
PATRICK
In what kind?
PATRICK
Of context, would this be used, do you think?
MAGGIE
Yeah, in terms of.
MAGGIE
The actual workbook itself, so it’s really designed for people with psychosis like.
MAGGIE
It’s written in language.
MAGGIE
That it’s for record.
MAGGIE
For somebody who’s experiencing these symptoms themselves, and.
MAGGIE
One of the things that’s.
MAGGIE
Cool about that is that there aren’t.
MAGGIE
Any other books on the?
MAGGIE
Market that are designed specifically for this.
MAGGIE
Because I got a lot of misconceptions about when people say closely, absolutely, but we didn’t really.
MAGGIE
Know that or.
MAGGIE
Excuse me, we knew that for a long time that people made assumptions that that wasn’t true.
MAGGIE
So I think part of how I use the workbook.
MAGGIE
And I notice a lot of people have told.
MAGGIE
Me that they’re using the workbook now that.
MAGGIE
It’s out is either you know, using.
MAGGIE
On their own.
MAGGIE
Particularly in conjunction with loved ones, so.
MAGGIE
You know starting to do exercises and share with somebody else to be like this is what was helpful for me.
MAGGIE
Like can you remind me to?
MAGGIE
Use this line in crisis or there are certain.
MAGGIE
Things that are designed really to be.
MAGGIE
Use for people who trust in your life.
MAGGIE
And I’m also seeing a lot of people who are running into therapy with them.
MAGGIE
I’ve gotten lots of really just very heartwarming notes from people experiencing psychosis who bring me to be like I brought this into therapy so we can go through it together.
You know, I’m.
MAGGIE
Using it with my mom, I’m using it with.
MAGGIE
You know, my sister, whoever has a.
MAGGIE
Way to really.
MAGGIE
Bolster the things.
MAGGIE
That they’re already.
MAGGIE
Doing it would really be.
MAGGIE
Focus not just solid.
MAGGIE
You know, stopping symptomatic?
MAGGIE
’cause that’s not actually really the.
MAGGIE
Point of the.
MAGGIE
Book, but it is really like build.
MAGGIE
A life worth.
MAGGIE
Living where you feel like you can try to move towards your goals.
MAGGIE
And the things.
MAGGIE
That you love and.
MAGGIE
Work out where psychosis falls.
PATRICK
Wow and I love that.
PATRICK
That it’s designed to be in the hands of the client and the consumer.
PATRICK
And their families as a tool.
PATRICK
For self determination as opposed to a therapist, just saying OK.
PATRICK
Here’s this handout.
PATRICK
I want you to work on XY and Z or more.
PATRICK
It’s less prescriptive, and it’s more self, you know, self help, but can.
PATRICK
Also be used.
PATRICK
As a tool throughout therapy.
PATRICK
Maybe as a collaboration tool, right?
MAGGIE
Yeah, and I think that’s one of the interesting parts is I didn’t know when I wrote the book exactly how it.
MAGGIE
Would be used.
MAGGIE
I kind of vision in my mind and then people started writing it.
MAGGIE
Talked to me about how it had been useful and where they use it, and things that they’d like to see better or changed or whatever, and that was really a common thread was I think I want to use this with other people, and so I definitely encouraging people to say like.
Yeah, fine.
MAGGIE
You can share this with and it’s too private you know can.
MAGGIE
Be your own, it’s found.
MAGGIE
But a lot of the tools you know we know are useful in DBT.
MAGGIE
They’re in this.
MAGGIE
Workbook also work really well for caregivers, right?
MAGGIE
Like if you’re somebody.
MAGGIE
Who’s supporting somebody with psychosis?
PATRICK
That that makes sense.
MAGGIE
Yeah you.
MAGGIE
Want to be able to like?
MAGGIE
Well, so you want to be able to use.
MAGGIE
The tips still you want.
MAGGIE
To be able to use these.
MAGGIE
Things that help you manage your emotions when you’re.
MAGGIE
Struggling as well.
MAGGIE
Do it with us.
PATRICK
I use the tips kW, that skill is fantastic.
This is.
PATRICK
Yeah so.
PATRICK
Just circling back, I mean you just kind of brushed by the fact that you’re trained in CBT for trauma or psychosis, I should say.
PATRICK
Was that part of of the experience that led you to writing this?
PATRICK
Do you think is your experience doing that first?
PATRICK
Or was it DBT and then CBT for psychosis?
MAGGIE
So I probably got trained in a way that’s similar to how a lot of people who end up doing therapy do.
MAGGIE
Where I got trained?
MAGGIE
You know, in CDT as soon as I got to grad school and that was kind of.
MAGGIE
The bread and butter.
MAGGIE
Of most things in DBT I sort of opted into.
MAGGIE
And so I.
MAGGIE
Got trained specifically in CBT for psychosis during grad school.
MAGGIE
Because I think it was really.
MAGGIE
Up and coming at that time.
MAGGIE
About a decade.
MAGGIE
Ago where we.
MAGGIE
Were trying.
MAGGIE
To avoid this more in United States.
MAGGIE
And make sure.
MAGGIE
We will access to it.
MAGGIE
In my clinic in particular.
MAGGIE
I was getting.
MAGGIE
Trimmed that was really excited about like me to offer people therapy in addition to medication management for folks struggling with psychosis.
MAGGIE
And so I definitely.
MAGGIE
There’s kind of.
MAGGIE
Like a dual path but I.
MAGGIE
Didn’t really start using DBT sales.
MAGGIE
People with psychosis, probably until a few years in one of my mentors, encouraged me to say like why are we pretending that these are two totally separate worlds where there’s so much?
MAGGIE
Overlap of folks between the two.
MAGGIE
And so I loved person codes successfully like.
MAGGIE
Foundation of what I’ve done and my work, and I think one of the nice things about the DBT skills, is that they fit in really nicely, right?
MAGGIE
CBT is really focused on cognitions changing what we’re thinking, etc, and one of the things that sometimes is lacking from that is OK of how I deal with the emotional overwhelm.
MAGGIE
It’s happening, but I can’t prove this yet.
PATRICK
The crisis, yeah?
MAGGIE
On it exactly and so that’s that’s kind of how those.
MAGGIE
Two, I think really like a former.
MAGGIE
Really nice union together.
PATRICK
Life is messy, right?
PATRICK
I mean we always have the opportunity.
PATRICK
Wait, wait, wait, hold on, let me.
PATRICK
Journal this real quick.
PATRICK
Break this down.
PATRICK
Where’s the evidence?
PATRICK
You know?
PATRICK
Me challenges thought no ’cause life is happening at the speed of life.
PATRICK
Right, and so I think that’s that’s the biggest challenge.
PATRICK
With CBT alone is.
PATRICK
It takes a lot of practice and a lot of time to get to the point where you can catch yourself in real time.
PATRICK
Right, so just echoing what you said about DBT skills.
PATRICK
Those are a lot of those are designed as crisis survival skills, like in the moment I’m panicking.
PATRICK
What do I do?
PATRICK
What’s going to bring me down enough that I can start to assess the situation right?
MAGGIE
Exactly right, I think if it is like, how can I think clearly?
MAGGIE
Enough to like.
MAGGIE
Know how how I need to act in this situation or what decision.
MAGGIE
To make sort of like the idea of the distressed holloran skills and DDT of like.
MAGGIE
Get through a difficult level without doing something to.
PATRICK
The stop skills, right yeah?
MAGGIE
Make it worse, like when we get.
MAGGIE
Through without, like talking another fire.
MAGGIE
To go out and or to to erupt, and I think.
MAGGIE
In particular, I know what psychosis is.
MAGGIE
There is an urgency that’s there to intervene, right?
MAGGIE
Rates of self harm and suicide are so high amongst people with psychosis as well as heavy drug use.
MAGGIE
We need to find things that are going to help them intervene so that they can choose a different option than some of those ones that might be potentially.
MAGGIE
Harmful or come with consequences for them in the long term.
PATRICK
Right, ’cause this population just like every other population, does not exist in a vacuum.
PATRICK
It’s layered, right?
PATRICK
Like use those substance use and Co occurring disorders, right?
PATRICK
DBT skills, I imagine work for a lot of those things.
PATRICK
Simultaneously and you.
PATRICK
Can apply them in across multiple domains, right?
PATRICK
Very good, very good, so I imagine a lot of your life, your work life is absorbed.
PATRICK
You know and.
PATRICK
Promoting this book.
PATRICK
Applying this book.
PATRICK
What else do you see your time going to in terms of your multiple hats you wear trainer consultant?
MAGGIE
Yeah, well, that’s
MAGGIE
What I’m looking at right?
MAGGIE
Now is figuring out kind of what that hot?
MAGGIE
Looks like and I.
MAGGIE
Think right now the thing that.
MAGGIE
I’ve seen me.
MAGGIE
I think the most and excited and alive recently is providing trainings to people in the community and and really helping people particularly early in their career as mental health clinicians as well as we are on.
MAGGIE
To say like let’s get you these tools now so you can be developing them because you’ve got you know, many years potentially doing this work.
MAGGIE
And I.
MAGGIE
Think what that’s.
MAGGIE
Look like for me, it’s doing trains with places across the country.
MAGGIE
One of the great things of one of the few upsides I.
MAGGIE
Should think about.
MAGGIE
COVID is kind of the access to this virtual world where I’ve been able to give trainings.
MAGGIE
I just trained City of Chicago in DDT for psychosis organization in Utah and New York.
MAGGIE
Being able to have access to.
MAGGIE
In places that I wouldn’t otherwise, just by virtue of this book as well as the virtual world.
MAGGIE
So for me, it’s been a really exciting prospect of getting people trained as clinicians.
MAGGIE
Unless I’m also ready to book chapter for a different book about novel approaches to psychosis that’s coming out of the publishing scene, so it’ll be international both in English and Spanish, and so the opportunity again to say, let’s get creative and our intervention to psychosis.
MAGGIE
And here’s how we used to do that specifically.
PATRICK
Wow, that’s fantastic.
PATRICK
Yeah, it’s definitely a whole new world with.
PATRICK
COVID, having opened up things like Tele Health, which was kind of on the fringe before you know not so well accepted, and now it’s the norm.
PATRICK
Online learning, yeah, so.
PATRICK
It’s there’s some silver lining with COVID is that you can educate more people help more people.
MAGGIE
Yeah, it’s starting to feel that way, definitely.
PATRICK
So you’ve done a lot.
PATRICK
You’re doing a lot.
PATRICK
Where do you think you would like to take things next?
PATRICK
Like as your you know, as your.
PATRICK
As you close the chapter, maybe you can relax a little bit on this, ’cause you’ve just finished this giant thing and you’re doing the trainings.
PATRICK
Where do you think you’ll be leaning in?
PATRICK
I know you said you’re working on another book.
MAGGIE
Yeah, so I am, I think really looking right now.
MAGGIE
Training is like my biggest kind of field so I’m still doing my full time job working with folks with psychosis and doing better specialty work at a clinic which I just love.
MAGGIE
And one of the.
MAGGIE
Really cool parts of my role there is.
MAGGIE
I run a.
MAGGIE
Training program so for.
MAGGIE
People who are just fresh out of grad school.
MAGGIE
Or post masters.
MAGGIE
Fellows who standing here with US training.
MAGGIE
That’s I think 1.
MAGGIE
Of my biggest passions is doing supervision and training.
MAGGIE
People who are new to the field and really trying to put my energy and effort into.
MAGGIE
Using that flexible justice lens of doing this work, but I think I had some training in my house in grad school, but probably.
MAGGIE
Not nearly as.
MAGGIE
Much for what the world?
MAGGIE
Looks like now so.
MAGGIE
Trying to really train a class where we are talking really actively about like how do we do anti?
MAGGIE
Racist work at social workers.
MAGGIE
What’s our history of?
MAGGIE
Social workers that haven’t been so pretty.
MAGGIE
And how can we do better?
MAGGIE
And thinking about how we’re integrating those principles and also again taking out this ability justice lens to kind of teach them around what is what’s normal, right?
MAGGIE
Like how do we even define?
MAGGIE
Some of these things we’re working in a medical model and the difference between.
MAGGIE
He was lived experience and then.
MAGGIE
We could use some help about that.
MAGGIE
So kind of I think from that.
MAGGIE
Perspective of doing training with people.
MAGGIE
Who are newer to the field?
MAGGIE
And really, I think for me.
MAGGIE
Using some of their energy, right?
MAGGIE
Like the excitement they bring.
MAGGIE
Enough people who.
MAGGIE
Are not jaded yet.
MAGGIE
So they’re you know, really.
MAGGIE
Important part and they’re deciding.
MAGGIE
With new ideas and really.
MAGGIE
Being able to understand that for myself.
MAGGIE
To feel excited about the work I’m doing.
PATRICK
Well, certainly I mean I can relate to that.
PATRICK
You know, I remember when I was coming out of grad school and you just don’t understand.
PATRICK
I didn’t understand the lay of the land and all of the different avenues you can go down in social work and mental health you know, and what that looks like because yeah, once you land, I mean you’re excited to land into a clinic and get a job right out of school.
PATRICK
And then.
PATRICK
But and you spend all your time getting your hours.
PATRICK
And you’re trained and you know what you’re allowed to be trained in and what you’re told you know to work with.
PATRICK
And the population you’re given be that children or adults or older adults or the homeless.
PATRICK
You know, field based and and do that for a while.
PATRICK
And but if that’s all your experiences end.
PATRICK
You know there’s an opportunity cost if you don’t know what other options are out there, right, or how else you can apply or like use like you were just saying.
PATRICK
Like a lot of the social justice that.
PATRICK
Causes that social work was founded upon oftentimes, or, you know, kind of fall into the shadows if we don’t understand what our options are.
PATRICK
You know other than just lobbying.
PATRICK
So yeah, I’m glad to hear you’re passionate about that, and it shows in the way you talk about it.
MAGGIE
Oh, thank you.
MAGGIE
Yeah it it is definitely.
MAGGIE
I think it’s the most excited these days and I think.
MAGGIE
For myself personally.
MAGGIE
The reason leverage with social work over other professions.
MAGGIE
With the idea that.
MAGGIE
I could move between countries are in micro levels.
MAGGIE
Like I’m working.
MAGGIE
On or in terms of my individual client.
MAGGIE
Work to more of a macro level.
MAGGIE
Activism type of work, which is where I.
MAGGIE
Came from before I did.
MAGGIE
All of this and then.
MAGGIE
Down to the meso level, which.
MAGGIE
To me is like my book right?
MAGGIE
As an example, like a ways that we kind.
MAGGIE
Of can influence change and do work on all.
MAGGIE
These different levels and.
MAGGIE
Particularly keeping all.
MAGGIE
Of those contacts in mind, when they.
MAGGIE
Work with somebody or work with the community.
MAGGIE
And for me, as somebody, whoever gets bored easily like I’d like to be learning.
MAGGIE
I like to be growing and really.
MAGGIE
Love social work for.
MAGGIE
That reason that it gives me.
MAGGIE
The ability to kind of move between things and.
MAGGIE
You know, just find different things that can be excited about going and making a change online.
MAGGIE
It burns out in certain things in different areas.
PATRICK
Yeah, you seem very.
PATRICK
Good about throttling and knowing how to move between passions.
PATRICK
And keep those things.
PATRICK
Alive, that’s such an important part of mental health.
PATRICK
In general and people.
PATRICK
Who oftentimes end up feeling unhappy, it’s because there’s nothing to stimulate them, or they’re neglecting a part of their themselves or what’s important.
PATRICK
There’s no, you know, the more autonomy it seems you, you’ll you lose, the easier it is to kind of get stuck in a rut even professionally.
MAGGIE
Yeah, absolutely.
MAGGIE
I mean, I think.
MAGGIE
Come to mention, you know before I got into social worker, graduates, flooring investments, really doing community work based activist work and for me I think one of the things that I noticed was how burned out how quickly I got doing that work because I didn’t have.
MAGGIE
The tools or the understanding of like how do you take care of?
MAGGIE
Yourself when you’re doing this work.
MAGGIE
It feels literally nonstop, right?
MAGGIE
Anything in social work?
MAGGIE
Too, there’s kind.
MAGGIE
Of a sense of like there’s.
MAGGIE
So much done like and I.
MAGGIE
I want to do all of it and there’s.
MAGGIE
A lot of why we.
MAGGIE
Get into this field in the 1st.
MAGGIE
Place so we want to help our communities.
MAGGIE
We want to make a big difference but.
MAGGIE
The pacing part being so critical that I’ve been Edwards with many other people the hard way, where you kind of hit a wall.
MAGGIE
At various times doing things.
MAGGIE
And for a long.
MAGGIE
Time in history.
MAGGIE
And work in the prison system.
MAGGIE
And really, feeling like we’ve seen a lot of really regularly traumatic things that.
MAGGIE
People are being.
MAGGIE
Treated and the way the institution was talking about people.
MAGGIE
And I didn’t really have.
MAGGIE
I think quite the.
MAGGIE
Robust understanding of how that would impact me personally is.
MAGGIE
Just somebody who’s going in helping people.
MAGGIE
And so I think I have really appreciated doing this work where.
MAGGIE
And so that I have more understanding more training, I can pass that on to the next generation of people who are becoming therapists or social workers or can change.
MAGGIE
Agents in some way to be like.
MAGGIE
Everything I’ve experience will be different than yours, but here’s what to look out for with, you know.
MAGGIE
Burnout and secondary fermentation and all those things that I think about.
MAGGIE
Kind of the hazards of our field.
PATRICK
That must be so rewarding.
PATRICK
You know to be able to to be in a position to give people a heads up, you know, new clinicians you know.
PATRICK
Watch out for this pothole.
PATRICK
Watch out for.
PATRICK
That yeah.
PATRICK
Because those are serious things.
PATRICK
Absolutely burnout is.
PATRICK
A huge huge issue in this field, so if you can help people get.
PATRICK
Ahead of it, you know.
PATRICK
That’s fantastic and you know, I, I envy you.
PATRICK
You know, I certainly have a passion for helping what you know.
PATRICK
New clinicians would be clinicians as part of my whole mental health toolbox project.
PATRICK
You know, as to kind of.
PATRICK
Help consumers or would be consumers, but also clinicians you know and help them.
PATRICK
Avoid avoidable suffering.
PATRICK
Right, but they can show up as them their best selves and serve to their best ability, right?
PATRICK
So thank you for the work you do.
PATRICK
It’s definitely dear in my heart.
MAGGIE
Yeah, I love the way you.
MAGGIE
Come back to avoid.
MAGGIE
Unnecessary suffering is that.
MAGGIE
What you said?
PATRICK
Yeah yeah alright avoidable suffering absolutely.
I love that.
PATRICK
Yeah, there’s no need to burn out.
PATRICK
You know there’s no need, you know.
PATRICK
And first thing I teach you, you know in my Graduate School is, you know, focus on the small wins.
PATRICK
It’s like preparing you for.
PATRICK
Under those, yeah because.
PATRICK
There’s going to be a lot of unpleasant stories we take on to understand the context. That’s a big part of being a therapist is on the micro levels to you to really understand to the best of our ability. Not that we can ever walk in somebody else’s shoes, but to really get perspective.
PATRICK
We have to hear the details.
PATRICK
We have to absorb that and mentally process what that looks like in order to look for points of intervention to help people understand where a coping skill might fit and what’s not going to work.
PATRICK
Right?
PATRICK
Yeah, that takes a lot.
PATRICK
Of mental ram too, yeah.
MAGGIE
Yes, yeah.
PATRICK
Then to turn around and practice what we preach.
PATRICK
You know that’s a whole other thing.
MAGGIE
Yeah, well, that’s actually one of the things I.
MAGGIE
Like most about DBT is that.
MAGGIE
You know, being part of the team.
MAGGIE
There is.
MAGGIE
A inherent focus on the idea that you need to use these skills because you’re doing hard work essentially and you will be a crappy provider if you do not take care of yourself.
MAGGIE
And so I really like that.
MAGGIE
Personally, accountability to be like.
MAGGIE
I have a team that I’m gonna go.
MAGGIE
Like see every.
MAGGIE
Week, who will ask me things like how’s your mindfulness practice like?
MAGGIE
Are you using your distress tolerance skills like?
MAGGIE
What’re you basically just holding me accountable to?
MAGGIE
Not bury myself out and then.
PATRICK
Yes, that’s one of my favorite parts.
PATRICK
Facets of the DBT structure is the group consultation.
PATRICK
With the other clinicians, because of the accountability.
PATRICK
And supporting each other, you know in check and then I feel like in my in my experience no other EVP really has that.
PATRICK
You know, and and the terms.
PATRICK
Of that that group support.
PATRICK
That’s easily, easily missed if you don’t make it.
PATRICK
Make an effort to seek it out via supervision or otherwise.
PATRICK
Yeah, you’re getting your hours you.
Really what?
PATRICK
Have the group supervision, but then you know after you’re done getting licensed, that’s not really a thing, so.
MAGGIE
Yeah, I’m not sure.
MAGGIE
I thought about that before, but I think he made a really smart point, which is the idea that I don’t know that there are other treatments that are really as focused on.
MAGGIE
You know, we need to talk about like providing.
MAGGIE
Therapy for the therapist.
MAGGIE
But but using DBT skills to treat DVT problems essentially in those contribution teams and really value that, I think that’s one of the big parts at me.
MAGGIE
Through doing hard.
MAGGIE
Work with really challenging situations or challenging behaviors that come.
MAGGIE
Up with clients is.
MAGGIE
Having people I can rely on and kind of fall back on and.
MAGGIE
I think that’s really wonderful and unique.
MAGGIE
Part of DBT and.
PATRICK
The very shared responsibility too, because I don’t my experience we traded off.
PATRICK
Leading the groups and Co.
PATRICK
Leading the groups and everybody had at least one or two of their own clients, you know?
PATRICK
And so it was.
PATRICK
It wasn’t very much joint effort and even the way groups are run.
PATRICK
It’s not like it’s.
PATRICK
The therapist talking at the consumers it’s we are talking and working on this together and it’s very a lot of common moderate not all in the same boat mentality.
PATRICK
I think really makes it work.
MAGGIE
Yeah, definitely.
PATRICK
I can’t tell my big fan of DBT so.
MAGGIE
I’m very good.
PATRICK
Uhm, any other passions that maybe people don’t know about?
PATRICK
At least not on your professional side.
MAGGIE
Oh what a good question.
MAGGIE
There are things.
MAGGIE
I’m excited.
MAGGIE
About I don’t.
MAGGIE
Like it, you can probably tell.
MAGGIE
Despite how excited I get about many things, I’m like a very shiny person, like a shiny object person where.
PATRICK
The object.
MAGGIE
I get very excited.
PATRICK
Not about.
I would say the things I’ve been.
MAGGIE
Most excited about recently.
MAGGIE
We are really doing gender specialty work, I mean.
MAGGIE
In terms of like.
MAGGIE
My professional life like as in a winery person.
MAGGIE
It feels so exciting to.
MAGGIE
Be able to provide representation to my community.
MAGGIE
And the folks that I’m serving in that regard.
MAGGIE
So that’s been I.
MAGGIE
Think one really exciting.
MAGGIE
Thing that I’ve been working on.
MAGGIE
And trying to grow a bit more.
MAGGIE
I think that.
MAGGIE
They personally for me that’s been the.
MAGGIE
Most exciting is.
MAGGIE
Like dance, actually.
MAGGIE
It’s the thing I think that has.
MAGGIE
Helped me maintain my mental health the last years almost above anything else is just having the states to exercise.
MAGGIE
Like have a community of.
MAGGIE
People that I’m doing that to share activity.
MAGGIE
With and it’s still really challenging.
MAGGIE
For my brain to learn choreography and do.
MAGGIE
Certain things like that, so been fun.
PATRICK
It’s very scalable passion, right?
PATRICK
’cause there’s always something like cooking.
PATRICK
There’s always something new to.
PATRICK
Learn plus you’ve got the activity.
PATRICK
That’s fantastic guys dancing that makes a lot of sense.
PATRICK
Personal care.
MAGGIE
Last one exactly.
PATRICK
Personal villain yeah.
MAGGIE
Well, and the part that I do personally is like I sort of, moved away from like more serious stands and have really just been doing these classes that are about like learning the choreography of pop stars.
MAGGIE
And it’s just like a fun to be able to do something that’s totally absurd and like.
MAGGIE
Also like very fun to get into.
MAGGIE
And like that’s the type of stuff.
MAGGIE
I encourage my clients to get into.
MAGGIE
It’s like it doesn’t matter.
MAGGIE
That, like it’s odd to other people or whatever it’s.
MAGGIE
Really about using.
MAGGIE
This funding from let loose and fully.
MAGGIE
Participate in to use sign language.
MAGGIE
Really, at the moment, enjoy it.
PATRICK
Yeah, yeah.
PATRICK
Yeah I could.
PATRICK
Use that advice, I’m the wallflower, never gonna dance.
PATRICK
I’m the guy going.
PATRICK
To get another glass of punch.
MAGGIE
We all have little.
All right?
PATRICK
Anything we didn’t touch on that you feel is important for our listeners.
PATRICK
Nuggets of wisdom.
PATRICK
Maybe for both the consumer and the practitioner.
PATRICK
Takeaway points that if there’s nothing else they remember from this interview that you would have them walk away with.
MAGGIE
I think maybe the.
MAGGIE
Biggest piece right now that I’m working to sort of like educate people about is really the.
MAGGIE
Idea of normalizing talking about mental health, but in particular severe mental illness.
MAGGIE
So not just saying that crushing anxiety, which I.
MAGGIE
Think are really.
MAGGIE
Things or societies we.
MAGGIE
Don’t air on recently.
MAGGIE
But thinking about people who.
MAGGIE
Are also experiencing more active, more impairing.
MAGGIE
Type of symptoms who have.
MAGGIE
More stress that comes from there.
MAGGIE
Experience overall and mechanick conditions.
MAGGIE
And really, thinking about it from the perspective of.
MAGGIE
Again, people would psychosis and people who have heard this server kind of.
MAGGIE
Again, it’s more an accident or mental health issues to be the ones who are leading the way.
MAGGIE
Around this and part.
MAGGIE
Of our model.
MAGGIE
As therapists or as mental health providers to be to listen to that right.
MAGGIE
To really take that seriously and not to kind of write off as another delusional behavior or some.
MAGGIE
Of the things that we might.
MAGGIE
Have done in the past and really.
MAGGIE
But those voices leave, so for me, I think my my.
MAGGIE
Biggest goal is like.
MAGGIE
Listening to people who are having that experience and being able to integrate that into my work in a much more active way and having that be a really active voice there.
PATRICK
Yeah, I love that.
PATRICK
I remember a train I took years ago.
PATRICK
It was called listening with psychotic ears.
PATRICK
I was very much to that effect as being being careful to watch her own implicit bias and not just label something as a particular behavior and and be passive about it, but really to to try and figure out what that’s about.
PATRICK
You know what does that mean to the consumer?
Good move.
PATRICK
Why is that showing up now or in this situation?
MAGGIE
Yeah, definitely so I think just more inclusion of people with psychosis.
MAGGIE
Is kind of the general theme for me.
MAGGIE
Recently is thinking about like how do we have people at stake holders, right?
MAGGIE
So we were mentioning kind of integrate them into the work we’re doing, taking them seriously and and also I think just thinking about like but we do have options.
MAGGIE
For people with.
MAGGIE
Psychosis there are.
MAGGIE
Within our wheelhouse that we can provide.
MAGGIE
And not being scared of that right?
MAGGIE
Like I think that’s clinicians.
MAGGIE
Sometimes we get afraid of things that we can’t define or camper, bigger or higher risk issues, but putting this like other mental health issues that we can treat and that are manageable as well and people can have a life worth.
MAGGIE
Living and how to hopefully chart.
PATRICK
Yeah, absolutely, we’re going to get a on a whole soapbox about, you know, facilitating more time and space to work on these things, even with in clinic settings?
PATRICK
Yeah, it’s group setting, staffing the whole bit, you know, caseloads.
MAGGIE
Absolutely yeah.
Boo Hoo.
PATRICK
Different conversation.
PATRICK
I have all the DBT skills.
PATRICK
What do you feel would be the most are the most maybe effective in helping with mood regulation?
PATRICK
In your experience.
MAGGIE
It’s hard to choose just one because you still lose stack on top of each other.
MAGGIE
That’s a little bit great.
MAGGIE
Parts you have to be mindful in order to.
MAGGIE
Know you need a skill that type of life.
PATRICK
Dear man, give fast problem solving, communication, crisis skills stuff.
PATRICK
I know I know they break it.
PATRICK
Up pretty.
PATRICK
Good by me right?
PATRICK
Yeah, in fact.
MAGGIE
I think you know, maybe the way I’ll answer.
MAGGIE
That question is a bit different than how you asked it.
MAGGIE
Is actually maybe?
MAGGIE
This still, but I think my clients find the most fun and they’re most willing to use because I think sometimes of what I have to do is get people to buy into.
MAGGIE
Using what I’m offering before.
They’re willing to do it, and.
MAGGIE
I often start with skills that.
MAGGIE
Are a little bit more.
MAGGIE
I don’t know I.
MAGGIE
Think there are more engaging to people.
MAGGIE
So like I love the distress tolerance skills.
MAGGIE
I love all of our.
MAGGIE
Emotion regulation skills.
MAGGIE
And some of them are a little heavier, so I often will start with people around us to like.
MAGGIE
Alternate rebellion, which I think.
MAGGIE
Is really a again a fun skill in the sense of.
MAGGIE
He the idea being that like for many people we rebel against society and somewhere, yeah, right like either.
MAGGIE
Or rebelling against boredom against formatting around our diagnosis.
MAGGIE
Like there’s always something that were rebelling against and the idea is that a lot of people end up using drugs as a waiter about because they kind of want to get like a.
MAGGIE
Nephew to society.
MAGGIE
To somebody telling them what to do, etc.
MAGGIE
But we also engage in.
MAGGIE
Other harm kind of harmful to ourselves.
MAGGIE
Behaviors that are not just drug use, right?
MAGGIE
So like self isolation, right being a big one amongst people or self harm.
MAGGIE
Or you know a number of other things, and so I often will work on my clients by saying OK.
MAGGIE
The way you rebelling is coming with some.
MAGGIE
Consequences, right?
MAGGIE
Let’s say it’s like.
MAGGIE
I don’t all use.
MAGGIE
So let’s instead find something.
MAGGIE
That still allows you to.
MAGGIE
Get that like fun rebellious spirit out but.
MAGGIE
Would have so many consequences.
MAGGIE
So like, let’s find something.
PATRICK
Ooh, I like that.
MAGGIE
Creative, right?
MAGGIE
Like it could be, you know, going to approach outstanding, your hair, different color, getting a piercing, getting attacked and use a.
MAGGIE
Temporary tattoos.
MAGGIE
Start whisper for that.
PATRICK
Yeah, little hand, in fact yours.
MAGGIE
Yeah, we could be working with one client for people like her way of rebelling against her partner was to pee in the shower like that was like.
MAGGIE
Her very simple thing.
MAGGIE
That was like a way of like F.
Love it.
MAGGIE
U but like 0.
PATRICK
Right?
MAGGIE
Consequences ultimately, no one knew.
PATRICK
My harm reduction.
MAGGIE
Exactly, yeah, and I actually think this is really a Hershey story was named that well because it is about the producing the harm associated with certain behaviors and finding things that can still get that like awesome, really important to harness rebellious spirit out in a way that’s going.
MAGGIE
To come with.
MAGGIE
You or negative consequences ultimate.
MAGGIE
So I think that’s one of the ways I sometimes get my clients into doing this.
MAGGIE
Particularly people like maybe teams or people who are a little.
MAGGIE
More hesitant to.
MAGGIE
Engage with me or on DDT and then kind.
MAGGIE
Of work with other stuff.
MAGGIE
From there, once they’re bought in.
PATRICK
I love it.
PATRICK
I love it.
PATRICK
It reminds me of that.
PATRICK
A hierarchy of.
PATRICK
You know you help people find what they want, so you can lead them to what they need, right?
Right?
PATRICK
I love it.
PATRICK
Alright so uhm.
PATRICK
Where can our listeners find more out about you?
PATRICK
Where can they go to?
PATRICK
Learn more about Maggie.
MAGGIE
Yeah, so definitely my website whichismaggiemullen.com is a great place to start. You can find me on social media.
MAGGIE
I’m on Instagram at Maggie Mullen, LCSW.
MAGGIE
I’m also on.
MAGGIE
Goodreads as an author there.
MAGGIE
And that’s.
MAGGIE
Really the easiest.
MAGGIE
Ways to get in touch with me as well.
MAGGIE
As LinkedIn as well.
PATRICK
Beautiful website by the way.
MAGGIE
Thank you.
PATRICK
Very nice, nicely polished.
PATRICK
Your book, where can people find it?
MAGGIE
Oh yeah, so anywhere.
MAGGIE
You buy your books.
MAGGIE
So Amazon good, you know.
MAGGIE
In books shop.
MAGGIE
Dot com any of those websites, it’s fine as well as like their local books where you can request.
MAGGIE
From there you can request from your local library wherever you want to get it, and there’s a link on my website to it, but it’s again the DBT skills workbook for psychosis.
PATRICK
Fantastic, alright, well I’ll be sure to link up to all of that in the description etc.
PATRICK
Podcast, blog, YouTube wherever you happen to be absorbing this from.
PATRICK
Any anything you’d like to add, any questions, comments, concerns?
MAGGIE
No, I really appreciate the work you’re doing.
MAGGIE
Passion for having me on today and excited to be sharing.
MAGGIE
Their little box.
MAGGIE
Resources with the outside working with.
PATRICK
Oh, thank you.
PATRICK
Yes, I’m sure this will be a gem for our listeners.
PATRICK
Thank you so much for your time and would it be OK if I did a follow up down the road, see how things are going on your world?
MAGGIE
Of course, yeah.
PATRICK
OK, great, thank you so much.
PATRICK
I’ll be checking in with you and, uh, you know down the road see how things are going and feel free to reach out anytime OK?
MAGGIE
Thank you Patrick.
MAGGIE
I really appreciate that.
PATRICK
Alright, thank you.
PATRICK
Thank you so much.
MAGGIE
Alright, take care bye.
PATRICK
Thank you bye bye.
PATRICK
Well, there you have it.
PATRICK
Another tool to help you thrive.
PATRICK
Hey, if you’re getting value from this content and you haven’t done so already, be sure to subscribe like and share.
PATRICK
It helps us reach more people to raise mental health awareness.
PATRICK
All right.
PATRICK
Now go make good things happen.
PATRICK
Bye bye.
Want to learn more? Check out my top picks for books on self-improvement and recovery HERE!
NEED CRISIS HELP? If you need immediate crisis help with your depression, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or text “START” to 741-741
OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES: See International Suicide Hotlines
WHERE TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP:
-NAMI Referral Helpline: 1-800-950-6264
-California’s Statewide Mental Health Helpline: 1-855-845-7415
ASK: If you have a question you’d like me to answer here on the blog (even if you think it’s a silly one!), please use the form on the CONTACT ME page, or the comment section below. I would be happy to take a poke at it and provide a long form answer when appropriate.
SHARE: Also, be sure to share it with a friend, as there is still a lot of work to be done in raising mental health awareness.
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