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Maggie Mullen, LCSW, Author of Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis

Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis (Interview With Author Maggie Mullen, LCSW)

In this episode of the Mental Health Toolbox, we are talking with author, speaker, trainer, and seasoned therapist, Maggie Mullen, on her new book. Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis.





Meet The Author: Maggie Mullen, LCSW. Author of Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis.

BIO:

Maggie Mullen, LCSW

Maggie Mullen, LCSW (they/them) is a clinical social worker, national trainer, community activist, and author of The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis. Maggie specializes in culturally responsive, evidence-based care for psychotic spectrum disorders, trauma and PTSD, the LBGTQ+ community, and formerly incarcerated people. As a training director at Kaiser Permanente, they take great pride in mentoring, training, and supervising the next generation of social workers. You can find them online at www.maggiemullen.com

Maggie Mullen, author of Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook For Psychosis.

People with psychosis are disproportionately overlooked, stigmatized, institutionalized, and incarcerated by society. It’s time for this to change and I’m happy to be part of a movement towards more widely available and inclusive mental health care. I’ve worked with people experiencing psychosis for over a decade. When my clients would ask me about recommendations for workbooks that might help them learn new skills or that they could use in between our sessions, I couldn’t find a single one. While there were plenty of wonderful books written for family members and mental health clinicians, no similar workbooks existed that were written for someone struggling with psychotic symptoms themselves. I wrote the DBT Skills Workbook for Psychosis to address this gap because people with psychosis deserve effective skills taught in a compassionate manner. This workbook is culturally responsive to the needs of people experiencing psychosis and their intersecting identities, meaning it’s inexpensive, easy to understand, and inclusive of cultural beliefs and practices. 

https://www.maggiemullen.com/my-book

Learn More:

***Note: some of the links in this post include affiliate links for which I earn a commission when purchases are made using those links, at no additional cost to you.

Get the Book: The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis: Manage Your Emotions, Reduce Symptoms, and Get Back to Your Life

Visit Her Website:

Maggie Mullen, LCSW

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Maggie Mullen, LCSW – Oakland, California, United States | Professional Profile | LinkedIn

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Instagram: @maggiemullenlcsw


Watch The Interview:

Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Psychosis-Interview with Author Maggie Mullen, LCSW

In this video, I interview Maggie Mullen, LCSW, author of Dialectical Behavior Skills Workbook for Psychosis.



Transcript:

 PATRICK

Are you or someone you know struggling with psychosis, then stick around because in this episode of the mental health toolbox we’re interviewing, Maggie Mullen, author, speaker, trainer, and therapist, on their new book, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Skills Workbook for psychosis.

 PATRICK

So let’s go.

 PATRICK

Hello Thrivers and welcome back to the mental health toolbox. My name is Patrick Martin and I am on a mission to help 1,000,000 people improve their quality of life with actionable skills on personal development.

 PATRICK

So let’s do it.

 PATRICK

Maggie Mullen is a clinical social worker, national trainer, community activist, and author of the Dialectical Behavior therapy skills.

 PATRICK

Workbook for psychosis.

 PATRICK

Magee specializes in culturally responsive, evidence-based care for psychotic spectrum disorders, trauma and PTSD.

 PATRICK

The LGBTQ plus community and formerly incarcerated people.

 PATRICK

As a training director at Kaiser Permanente, they take great pride in mentoring, training and supervising the next generation of social workers.

 PATRICK

You can find them online at www.maggiemullencom.

 PATRICK

All right, welcome Maggie to the mental Health Toolbox podcast.

 PATRICK

So glad you could make it today.

 PATRICK

It’s an honor and a privilege to have.

 PATRICK

You on I’m.

 PATRICK

I’m really excited about this interview because DBT is something I’m personally fond of, having been trained in DBT and lead individual.

 PATRICK

Group counseling for DBT for a couple of years I was really excited when I saw your book hit the shelves on DBT for Psychosis.

 PATRICK

But before we jump in, I just want to briefly reintroduce you to our listeners.

 PATRICK

You are a trainer author.

 PATRICK

Therapist did I miss any?

 MAGGIE

You got it all.

 MAGGIE

For many apps.

 PATRICK

Excellent, excellent, so we’re going to dive into all of that and this is going to be fun, so thank

 PATRICK

You so much.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, thanks for having me.

 MAGGIE

Patrick, I really appreciate it.

 PATRICK

Yeah, why don’t you go ahead and start us off by letting us know?

 PATRICK

A little bit about yourself.

 MAGGIE

Sure you did a great job.

 MAGGIE

I am a.

 MAGGIE

Typical social worker in.

 MAGGIE

The sense that I do a.

 MAGGIE

Lot of different things as a.

 MAGGIE

Way of keeping myself.

 MAGGIE

Active and excited and working on different levels.

 MAGGIE

So as you mentioned, I wrote a book recently.

 MAGGIE

Called the dialectical.

 MAGGIE

Behavioral therapy skills workbook for psychosis so DBT skills.

 MAGGIE

And that’s my most recent endeavor, and I’m I’m also a therapist.

 MAGGIE

I work most of the folks with psychotic spectrum disorders.

 MAGGIE

I also do gender specialty work, so working with our gender nonconforming and transgender populations here in the Bay Area in California.

 MAGGIE

So we got into doing trainings recently as well, so feel like I’m.

 MAGGIE

Spreading my wings into lots.

 MAGGIE

Of different areas has been really very fun for me.

 PATRICK

Yeah, you’ve covered a lot of ground and I love how you just say, oh, I just wrote a.

 PATRICK

Book like no.

 PATRICK

Big deal, you know.

 PATRICK

Just tack that onto the end.

 PATRICK

There that takes some time, right?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, the time energy tears, I mean all of it I I think I didn’t.

 MAGGIE

Necessarily set out as a.

 MAGGIE

Social worker to write a book and.

 MAGGIE

I actually got recruited to write it, which was.

 MAGGIE

Kind of a cool phenomena.

 MAGGIE

And it turns out.

 MAGGIE

Writing a book is just as hard as you think.

 MAGGIE

It is I really.

 MAGGIE

You know, not a surprise, but we.

 MAGGIE

Did most people out there in the.

 MAGGIE

World, but I was like, yeah, I think I would book.

 PATRICK

Do realize.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, I just.

 MAGGIE

Felt like yeah.

 MAGGIE

Sure, we can figure it out and then I realize like, oh, it’s it is a ton of time, not just writing the things you’re excited about, but.

 MAGGIE

Editing, painstakingly copy editing.

 MAGGIE

Going over the same things.

 MAGGIE

Over and over again.

 MAGGIE

Which is the least glamorous part of the process?

 MAGGIE

But it’s so cool at the end of the whole journey to have a physical manifestation of this thing that you’ve been working on for years, and so that like really warms.

 MAGGIE

My heart when.

 MAGGIE

I see the first copy of my.

 MAGGIE

Book and actually.

 MAGGIE

My parents were the first people somehow.

 MAGGIE

Without a copy of my.

 MAGGIE

Book I have no idea why, but they.

 MAGGIE

Got shifted for.

As it should be.

 MAGGIE

Me and it was very like.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, this seems right.

 PATRICK

No small thing or write a book and then I’m sure it’s a fantastic feeling to have it in in its true form completed.

 PATRICK

Then you have to launch it.

 PATRICK

Which is a whole other task, right?

 MAGGIE

That is exactly right, yes, so.

 MAGGIE

What I learned in this process is.

 MAGGIE

That there are about a million books to get published.

 MAGGIE

In EU.

 MAGGIE

S alone.

 MAGGIE

Every year and.

 MAGGIE

So part of what you’re trying to do?

 MAGGIE

As an author.

 MAGGIE

It’s sell your book right like market it, tell people about.

 MAGGIE

It get into the.

 MAGGIE

Hands who could?

 MAGGIE

Benefit and my.

 MAGGIE

Book is really designed for a relatively narrow population.

 MAGGIE

Right people who are experiencing psychosis their.

 MAGGIE

Loved ones or klinisch.

 MAGGIE

And that, I think, is a relatively narrow category.

 MAGGIE

Mean but I’m.

 MAGGIE

Really having to do a.

 MAGGIE

Lot of work to promote.

 MAGGIE

It and make sure it gets into the hands.

 MAGGIE

Of people who I think.

 MAGGIE

Could benefit from the most ultimately.

 MAGGIE

So that has been.

 MAGGIE

A learning process for me as well in addition to.

 MAGGIE

The actual writing.

 MAGGIE

And feel like, OK, cool it’s.

 MAGGIE

Done, this is actually where the.

 MAGGIE

Work starts, I think it’s to help people understand it’s a resource that.

 MAGGIE

Could be useful for them.

 PATRICK

Absolutely, and we can only use pointed resources such as this, and I’m trying to ask plug in that ourselves here.

 PATRICK

But DBT skills for psychosis that is like niche inside of a niche.

 PATRICK

Like how did that happen?

 MAGGIE

I’ll give you.

 MAGGIE

I’ll give you the immediate version, not the longer term or the short version of the story, but I ended up kind of going into the niche that I ended up in because I was trained as a DVT therapist during Graduate School and particularly for me.

 MAGGIE

I really got excited about DVT or.

 MAGGIE

Not told behavioral.

 MAGGIE

Therapy because not only is it a fantastically research driven intervention that really like literally helps save life.

 MAGGIE

Works, but it’s also an intervention that was.

 MAGGIE

Created by and.

 MAGGIE

For the people was meant to serve right?

 MAGGIE

So Doctor Marshall Lenehan, the developer DBT, has you know, spoken in recent years about being hospitalized for emotion regulation issues or self harm or suicide attempts as a youth and for me I really got drawn to DVT because.

 MAGGIE

They wanted to have.

 MAGGIE

The input of somebody who would be.

 MAGGIE

Like using this.

 MAGGIE

To be part of that story, right for that.

 MAGGIE

Disability justice lens of.

 MAGGIE

Nothing about us without us, right?

 MAGGIE

We should have.

 MAGGIE

Input as consumers into.

 MAGGIE

This and so part of how we ended up.

 MAGGIE

Kind of marrying the world of DBHT and psychosis is really to see there are so many carve outs in.

 MAGGIE

Mental health for.

 MAGGIE

People with psychosis, right?

 MAGGIE

There’s so many programs or research and literature, even medication trials.

 MAGGIE

Things like that.

 MAGGIE

You’ll often see if you look.

 MAGGIE

You know, not people with active psychosis.

 MAGGIE

Over and over again.

 MAGGIE

And what we’ve seen is that this.

 MAGGIE

Means that people are.

 MAGGIE

Over sort of.

 MAGGIE

Relying on institutionalization for people with psychosis or over medicating them.

 MAGGIE

And you know there’s been wonderful uses for medication.

 MAGGIE

They have a huge, I think, part in a lot of helping people with psychosis, but they are not the only thing that we know that people.

 MAGGIE

Can benefit from psychotherapy.

 MAGGIE

So for me.

 MAGGIE

It was sort of about marrying these two worlds and figuring out how can we benefit people with psychosis by.

 MAGGIE

Offering them skills.

 MAGGIE

That can actively intervene when that cycle of emotion dysregulation happens that we know worsen.

 MAGGIE

Symptoms of psychosis.

 PATRICK

Yeah, and I.

 PATRICK

Haven’t seen much, you know, in the way of.

 PATRICK

Evidence based practices for psychosis other than set for cognitive enhancement therapy, which is even that’s relatively new ish, you know, using social groups, no surprise and computers and you know, stimulus right for schizophrenia and DBT skills.

 PATRICK

So this is this isn’t just per say people with borderline personality disorder who struggle with psychosis.

 PATRICK

These skills you’re seeing are applicable to the gamut.

 MAGGIE

That’s what we’re going for, yeah?

 MAGGIE

Essentially, it’s certainly people, there’s a.

 MAGGIE

Big overlap between people who experience.

 MAGGIE

Flow like personality, disorder or.

 MAGGIE

Like what we call it the.

 MAGGIE

Motion dysregulation issues, and.

 MAGGIE

Psychosis like there’s just a huge.

 MAGGIE

Two kind of overlapping circles.

 MAGGIE

And So what we found is that we already kind.

 MAGGIE

Of set for people.

 MAGGIE

Who also were experiencing emotion regulation by PPD.

 MAGGIE

They did really well in the trials with DBT therapy.

 MAGGIE

Verbal tools experiencing psychosis and for people who have psychotic.

 MAGGIE

Spectrum alone right so?

 MAGGIE

Schizophrenia, so affective disorder, etc.

 MAGGIE

What we’ve found more and more through, like emerging literature and practice, is that they really struggle with emotion regulation issues.

 MAGGIE

But because they have extending those negative symptoms like a flat and affect difficulty connecting with emotion etc.

 MAGGIE

We just kind of assumed for a long time in in psychology that they weren’t experiencing.

 MAGGIE

Motions in the same way.

 MAGGIE

We’ve learned that’s like that’s totally fake news, right?

 MAGGIE

It’s not a.

 MAGGIE

Real thing, they actually are really experiencing that.

 MAGGIE

We just may not be.

 MAGGIE

Expressing it out lately so.

 PATRICK

Oh, fascinating.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, the idea was like let’s use those.

 MAGGIE

We know we’re.

 MAGGIE

Really well for people with emotional.

 MAGGIE

Regulation and offer them to.

 MAGGIE

A more general.

 MAGGIE

Population with the idea being the focus on skills.

 MAGGIE

Rather than like the.

 MAGGIE

We had here in DBT program.

 MAGGIE

For some of.

 MAGGIE

Whom that’s a good fit for people?

 MAGGIE

With psychosis and for others it may not fit.

 MAGGIE

You know the resources they have access to.

 MAGGIE

You know, housing insecurity, food insecurity or common amongst full psychosis and attending a full program.

 MAGGIE

It’s just maybe.

 MAGGIE

Not meant for them at times.

 PATRICK

Yeah, that makes.

 PATRICK

I mean, it’s fantastic that you can.

 PATRICK

Even dig this kind of information up through research and that brings kind of spotlight on these misconceptions.

 PATRICK

You know, within within the mental health field itself and a lot of these assumptions we have about people with psychosis, right take a different approach than just medication alone, right?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, exactly, and one of the the wonderful things that’s happened.

 MAGGIE

I think in the past only you know two decades or so is that we’ve seen the emergence of cognitive behavioral therapy for psychosis or CBT for psychosis, and seeing again more butter churner reliance.

 MAGGIE

I think less so in EU.

 MAGGIE

S and more abroad and seen a.

 MAGGIE

Lot in Australia in the UK where they’re.

 MAGGIE

Using these approaches really actively.

 MAGGIE

With folks with psychosis and seeing.

 MAGGIE

Really wonderful outcomes around quality of life in particular.

 MAGGIE

So helping people you know, be able to challenge their own thoughts or their distortions that are coming up as well as accepting and dealing with their symptoms differently.

 MAGGIE

Or that you can live a healthy.

 MAGGIE

Happy life and still hear voices, for example.

 MAGGIE

I think that’s mean that.

 MAGGIE

We haven’t really considered to.

 MAGGIE

Be like normal quote, unquote in society, in.

 MAGGIE

A lot of places.

 PATRICK

Right, absolutely you know, we understand it as normal.

 PATRICK

We know there’s a spectrum right between.

 PATRICK

Disorganized schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder right?

 PATRICK

We know that.

 PATRICK

The difference, somebody schizoaffective disorder, is going to have a lot.

 PATRICK

Higher capacity to engage with the world and push through and make things work in spite of the back burner psychosis.

 PATRICK

They’re more tripped up by the the front end mood dysregulation.

 PATRICK

Stuff you know versus somebody who’s you know, disorganized and doesn’t have the capacity.

 PATRICK

So I’m wondering with what these skills is in the workbook.

 PATRICK

Where’s the point of implementation when you’re working with client?

 PATRICK

In what kind?

 PATRICK

Of context, would this be used, do you think?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, in terms of.

 MAGGIE

The actual workbook itself, so it’s really designed for people with psychosis like.

 MAGGIE

It’s written in language.

 MAGGIE

That it’s for record.

 MAGGIE

For somebody who’s experiencing these symptoms themselves, and.

 MAGGIE

One of the things that’s.

 MAGGIE

Cool about that is that there aren’t.

 MAGGIE

Any other books on the?

 MAGGIE

Market that are designed specifically for this.

 MAGGIE

Because I got a lot of misconceptions about when people say closely, absolutely, but we didn’t really.

 MAGGIE

Know that or.

 MAGGIE

Excuse me, we knew that for a long time that people made assumptions that that wasn’t true.

 MAGGIE

So I think part of how I use the workbook.

 MAGGIE

And I notice a lot of people have told.

 MAGGIE

Me that they’re using the workbook now that.

 MAGGIE

It’s out is either you know, using.

 MAGGIE

On their own.

 MAGGIE

Particularly in conjunction with loved ones, so.

 MAGGIE

You know starting to do exercises and share with somebody else to be like this is what was helpful for me.

 MAGGIE

Like can you remind me to?

 MAGGIE

Use this line in crisis or there are certain.

 MAGGIE

Things that are designed really to be.

 MAGGIE

Use for people who trust in your life.

 MAGGIE

And I’m also seeing a lot of people who are running into therapy with them.

 MAGGIE

I’ve gotten lots of really just very heartwarming notes from people experiencing psychosis who bring me to be like I brought this into therapy so we can go through it together.

You know, I’m.

 MAGGIE

Using it with my mom, I’m using it with.

 MAGGIE

You know, my sister, whoever has a.

 MAGGIE

Way to really.

 MAGGIE

Bolster the things.

 MAGGIE

That they’re already.

 MAGGIE

Doing it would really be.

 MAGGIE

Focus not just solid.

 MAGGIE

You know, stopping symptomatic?

 MAGGIE

’cause that’s not actually really the.

 MAGGIE

Point of the.

 MAGGIE

Book, but it is really like build.

 MAGGIE

A life worth.

 MAGGIE

Living where you feel like you can try to move towards your goals.

 MAGGIE

And the things.

 MAGGIE

That you love and.

 MAGGIE

Work out where psychosis falls.

 PATRICK

Wow and I love that.

 PATRICK

That it’s designed to be in the hands of the client and the consumer.

 PATRICK

And their families as a tool.

 PATRICK

For self determination as opposed to a therapist, just saying OK.

 PATRICK

Here’s this handout.

 PATRICK

I want you to work on XY and Z or more.

 PATRICK

It’s less prescriptive, and it’s more self, you know, self help, but can.

 PATRICK

Also be used.

 PATRICK

As a tool throughout therapy.

 PATRICK

Maybe as a collaboration tool, right?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, and I think that’s one of the interesting parts is I didn’t know when I wrote the book exactly how it.

 MAGGIE

Would be used.

 MAGGIE

I kind of vision in my mind and then people started writing it.

 MAGGIE

Talked to me about how it had been useful and where they use it, and things that they’d like to see better or changed or whatever, and that was really a common thread was I think I want to use this with other people, and so I definitely encouraging people to say like.

Yeah, fine.

 MAGGIE

You can share this with and it’s too private you know can.

 MAGGIE

Be your own, it’s found.

 MAGGIE

But a lot of the tools you know we know are useful in DBT.

 MAGGIE

They’re in this.

 MAGGIE

Workbook also work really well for caregivers, right?

 MAGGIE

Like if you’re somebody.

 MAGGIE

Who’s supporting somebody with psychosis?

 PATRICK

That that makes sense.

 MAGGIE

Yeah you.

 MAGGIE

Want to be able to like?

 MAGGIE

Well, so you want to be able to use.

 MAGGIE

The tips still you want.

 MAGGIE

To be able to use these.

 MAGGIE

Things that help you manage your emotions when you’re.

 MAGGIE

Struggling as well.

 MAGGIE

Do it with us.

 PATRICK

I use the tips kW, that skill is fantastic.

This is.

 PATRICK

Yeah so.

 PATRICK

Just circling back, I mean you just kind of brushed by the fact that you’re trained in CBT for trauma or psychosis, I should say.

 PATRICK

Was that part of of the experience that led you to writing this?

 PATRICK

Do you think is your experience doing that first?

 PATRICK

Or was it DBT and then CBT for psychosis?

 MAGGIE

So I probably got trained in a way that’s similar to how a lot of people who end up doing therapy do.

 MAGGIE

Where I got trained?

 MAGGIE

You know, in CDT as soon as I got to grad school and that was kind of.

 MAGGIE

The bread and butter.

 MAGGIE

Of most things in DBT I sort of opted into.

 MAGGIE

And so I.

 MAGGIE

Got trained specifically in CBT for psychosis during grad school.

 MAGGIE

Because I think it was really.

 MAGGIE

Up and coming at that time.

 MAGGIE

About a decade.

 MAGGIE

Ago where we.

 MAGGIE

Were trying.

 MAGGIE

To avoid this more in United States.

 MAGGIE

And make sure.

 MAGGIE

We will access to it.

 MAGGIE

In my clinic in particular.

 MAGGIE

I was getting.

 MAGGIE

Trimmed that was really excited about like me to offer people therapy in addition to medication management for folks struggling with psychosis.

 MAGGIE

And so I definitely.

 MAGGIE

There’s kind of.

 MAGGIE

Like a dual path but I.

 MAGGIE

Didn’t really start using DBT sales.

 MAGGIE

People with psychosis, probably until a few years in one of my mentors, encouraged me to say like why are we pretending that these are two totally separate worlds where there’s so much?

 MAGGIE

Overlap of folks between the two.

 MAGGIE

And so I loved person codes successfully like.

 MAGGIE

Foundation of what I’ve done and my work, and I think one of the nice things about the DBT skills, is that they fit in really nicely, right?

 MAGGIE

CBT is really focused on cognitions changing what we’re thinking, etc, and one of the things that sometimes is lacking from that is OK of how I deal with the emotional overwhelm.

 MAGGIE

It’s happening, but I can’t prove this yet.

 PATRICK

The crisis, yeah?

 MAGGIE

On it exactly and so that’s that’s kind of how those.

 MAGGIE

Two, I think really like a former.

 MAGGIE

Really nice union together.

 PATRICK

Life is messy, right?

 PATRICK

I mean we always have the opportunity.

 PATRICK

Wait, wait, wait, hold on, let me.

 PATRICK

Journal this real quick.

 PATRICK

Break this down.

 PATRICK

Where’s the evidence?

 PATRICK

You know?

 PATRICK

Me challenges thought no ’cause life is happening at the speed of life.

 PATRICK

Right, and so I think that’s that’s the biggest challenge.

 PATRICK

With CBT alone is.

 PATRICK

It takes a lot of practice and a lot of time to get to the point where you can catch yourself in real time.

 PATRICK

Right, so just echoing what you said about DBT skills.

 PATRICK

Those are a lot of those are designed as crisis survival skills, like in the moment I’m panicking.

 PATRICK

What do I do?

 PATRICK

What’s going to bring me down enough that I can start to assess the situation right?

 MAGGIE

Exactly right, I think if it is like, how can I think clearly?

 MAGGIE

Enough to like.

 MAGGIE

Know how how I need to act in this situation or what decision.

 MAGGIE

To make sort of like the idea of the distressed holloran skills and DDT of like.

 MAGGIE

Get through a difficult level without doing something to.

 PATRICK

The stop skills, right yeah?

 MAGGIE

Make it worse, like when we get.

 MAGGIE

Through without, like talking another fire.

 MAGGIE

To go out and or to to erupt, and I think.

 MAGGIE

In particular, I know what psychosis is.

 MAGGIE

There is an urgency that’s there to intervene, right?

 MAGGIE

Rates of self harm and suicide are so high amongst people with psychosis as well as heavy drug use.

 MAGGIE

We need to find things that are going to help them intervene so that they can choose a different option than some of those ones that might be potentially.

 MAGGIE

Harmful or come with consequences for them in the long term.

 PATRICK

Right, ’cause this population just like every other population, does not exist in a vacuum.

 PATRICK

It’s layered, right?

 PATRICK

Like use those substance use and Co occurring disorders, right?

 PATRICK

DBT skills, I imagine work for a lot of those things.

 PATRICK

Simultaneously and you.

 PATRICK

Can apply them in across multiple domains, right?

 PATRICK

Very good, very good, so I imagine a lot of your life, your work life is absorbed.

 PATRICK

You know and.

 PATRICK

Promoting this book.

 PATRICK

Applying this book.

 PATRICK

What else do you see your time going to in terms of your multiple hats you wear trainer consultant?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, well, that’s

 MAGGIE

What I’m looking at right?

 MAGGIE

Now is figuring out kind of what that hot?

 MAGGIE

Looks like and I.

 MAGGIE

Think right now the thing that.

 MAGGIE

I’ve seen me.

 MAGGIE

I think the most and excited and alive recently is providing trainings to people in the community and and really helping people particularly early in their career as mental health clinicians as well as we are on.

 MAGGIE

To say like let’s get you these tools now so you can be developing them because you’ve got you know, many years potentially doing this work.

 MAGGIE

And I.

 MAGGIE

Think what that’s.

 MAGGIE

Look like for me, it’s doing trains with places across the country.

 MAGGIE

One of the great things of one of the few upsides I.

 MAGGIE

Should think about.

 MAGGIE

COVID is kind of the access to this virtual world where I’ve been able to give trainings.

 MAGGIE

I just trained City of Chicago in DDT for psychosis organization in Utah and New York.

 MAGGIE

Being able to have access to.

 MAGGIE

In places that I wouldn’t otherwise, just by virtue of this book as well as the virtual world.

 MAGGIE

So for me, it’s been a really exciting prospect of getting people trained as clinicians.

 MAGGIE

Unless I’m also ready to book chapter for a different book about novel approaches to psychosis that’s coming out of the publishing scene, so it’ll be international both in English and Spanish, and so the opportunity again to say, let’s get creative and our intervention to psychosis.

 MAGGIE

And here’s how we used to do that specifically.

 PATRICK

Wow, that’s fantastic.

 PATRICK

Yeah, it’s definitely a whole new world with.

 PATRICK

COVID, having opened up things like Tele Health, which was kind of on the fringe before you know not so well accepted, and now it’s the norm.

 PATRICK

Online learning, yeah, so.

 PATRICK

It’s there’s some silver lining with COVID is that you can educate more people help more people.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, it’s starting to feel that way, definitely.

 PATRICK

So you’ve done a lot.

 PATRICK

You’re doing a lot.

 PATRICK

Where do you think you would like to take things next?

 PATRICK

Like as your you know, as your.

 PATRICK

As you close the chapter, maybe you can relax a little bit on this, ’cause you’ve just finished this giant thing and you’re doing the trainings.

 PATRICK

Where do you think you’ll be leaning in?

 PATRICK

I know you said you’re working on another book.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, so I am, I think really looking right now.

 MAGGIE

Training is like my biggest kind of field so I’m still doing my full time job working with folks with psychosis and doing better specialty work at a clinic which I just love.

 MAGGIE

And one of the.

 MAGGIE

Really cool parts of my role there is.

 MAGGIE

I run a.

 MAGGIE

Training program so for.

 MAGGIE

People who are just fresh out of grad school.

 MAGGIE

Or post masters.

 MAGGIE

Fellows who standing here with US training.

 MAGGIE

That’s I think 1.

 MAGGIE

Of my biggest passions is doing supervision and training.

 MAGGIE

People who are new to the field and really trying to put my energy and effort into.

 MAGGIE

Using that flexible justice lens of doing this work, but I think I had some training in my house in grad school, but probably.

 MAGGIE

Not nearly as.

 MAGGIE

Much for what the world?

 MAGGIE

Looks like now so.

 MAGGIE

Trying to really train a class where we are talking really actively about like how do we do anti?

 MAGGIE

Racist work at social workers.

 MAGGIE

What’s our history of?

 MAGGIE

Social workers that haven’t been so pretty.

 MAGGIE

And how can we do better?

 MAGGIE

And thinking about how we’re integrating those principles and also again taking out this ability justice lens to kind of teach them around what is what’s normal, right?

 MAGGIE

Like how do we even define?

 MAGGIE

Some of these things we’re working in a medical model and the difference between.

 MAGGIE

He was lived experience and then.

 MAGGIE

We could use some help about that.

 MAGGIE

So kind of I think from that.

 MAGGIE

Perspective of doing training with people.

 MAGGIE

Who are newer to the field?

 MAGGIE

And really, I think for me.

 MAGGIE

Using some of their energy, right?

 MAGGIE

Like the excitement they bring.

 MAGGIE

Enough people who.

 MAGGIE

Are not jaded yet.

 MAGGIE

So they’re you know, really.

 MAGGIE

Important part and they’re deciding.

 MAGGIE

With new ideas and really.

 MAGGIE

Being able to understand that for myself.

 MAGGIE

To feel excited about the work I’m doing.

 PATRICK

Well, certainly I mean I can relate to that.

 PATRICK

You know, I remember when I was coming out of grad school and you just don’t understand.

 PATRICK

I didn’t understand the lay of the land and all of the different avenues you can go down in social work and mental health you know, and what that looks like because yeah, once you land, I mean you’re excited to land into a clinic and get a job right out of school.

 PATRICK

And then.

 PATRICK

But and you spend all your time getting your hours.

 PATRICK

And you’re trained and you know what you’re allowed to be trained in and what you’re told you know to work with.

 PATRICK

And the population you’re given be that children or adults or older adults or the homeless.

 PATRICK

You know, field based and and do that for a while.

 PATRICK

And but if that’s all your experiences end.

 PATRICK

You know there’s an opportunity cost if you don’t know what other options are out there, right, or how else you can apply or like use like you were just saying.

 PATRICK

Like a lot of the social justice that.

 PATRICK

Causes that social work was founded upon oftentimes, or, you know, kind of fall into the shadows if we don’t understand what our options are.

 PATRICK

You know other than just lobbying.

 PATRICK

So yeah, I’m glad to hear you’re passionate about that, and it shows in the way you talk about it.

 MAGGIE

Oh, thank you.

 MAGGIE

Yeah it it is definitely.

 MAGGIE

I think it’s the most excited these days and I think.

 MAGGIE

For myself personally.

 MAGGIE

The reason leverage with social work over other professions.

 MAGGIE

With the idea that.

 MAGGIE

I could move between countries are in micro levels.

 MAGGIE

Like I’m working.

 MAGGIE

On or in terms of my individual client.

 MAGGIE

Work to more of a macro level.

 MAGGIE

Activism type of work, which is where I.

 MAGGIE

Came from before I did.

 MAGGIE

All of this and then.

 MAGGIE

Down to the meso level, which.

 MAGGIE

To me is like my book right?

 MAGGIE

As an example, like a ways that we kind.

 MAGGIE

Of can influence change and do work on all.

 MAGGIE

These different levels and.

 MAGGIE

Particularly keeping all.

 MAGGIE

Of those contacts in mind, when they.

 MAGGIE

Work with somebody or work with the community.

 MAGGIE

And for me, as somebody, whoever gets bored easily like I’d like to be learning.

 MAGGIE

I like to be growing and really.

 MAGGIE

Love social work for.

 MAGGIE

That reason that it gives me.

 MAGGIE

The ability to kind of move between things and.

 MAGGIE

You know, just find different things that can be excited about going and making a change online.

 MAGGIE

It burns out in certain things in different areas.

 PATRICK

Yeah, you seem very.

 PATRICK

Good about throttling and knowing how to move between passions.

 PATRICK

And keep those things.

 PATRICK

Alive, that’s such an important part of mental health.

 PATRICK

In general and people.

 PATRICK

Who oftentimes end up feeling unhappy, it’s because there’s nothing to stimulate them, or they’re neglecting a part of their themselves or what’s important.

 PATRICK

There’s no, you know, the more autonomy it seems you, you’ll you lose, the easier it is to kind of get stuck in a rut even professionally.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, absolutely.

 MAGGIE

I mean, I think.

 MAGGIE

Come to mention, you know before I got into social worker, graduates, flooring investments, really doing community work based activist work and for me I think one of the things that I noticed was how burned out how quickly I got doing that work because I didn’t have.

 MAGGIE

The tools or the understanding of like how do you take care of?

 MAGGIE

Yourself when you’re doing this work.

 MAGGIE

It feels literally nonstop, right?

 MAGGIE

Anything in social work?

 MAGGIE

Too, there’s kind.

 MAGGIE

Of a sense of like there’s.

 MAGGIE

So much done like and I.

 MAGGIE

I want to do all of it and there’s.

 MAGGIE

A lot of why we.

 MAGGIE

Get into this field in the 1st.

 MAGGIE

Place so we want to help our communities.

 MAGGIE

We want to make a big difference but.

 MAGGIE

The pacing part being so critical that I’ve been Edwards with many other people the hard way, where you kind of hit a wall.

 MAGGIE

At various times doing things.

 MAGGIE

And for a long.

 MAGGIE

Time in history.

 MAGGIE

And work in the prison system.

 MAGGIE

And really, feeling like we’ve seen a lot of really regularly traumatic things that.

 MAGGIE

People are being.

 MAGGIE

Treated and the way the institution was talking about people.

 MAGGIE

And I didn’t really have.

 MAGGIE

I think quite the.

 MAGGIE

Robust understanding of how that would impact me personally is.

 MAGGIE

Just somebody who’s going in helping people.

 MAGGIE

And so I think I have really appreciated doing this work where.

 MAGGIE

And so that I have more understanding more training, I can pass that on to the next generation of people who are becoming therapists or social workers or can change.

 MAGGIE

Agents in some way to be like.

 MAGGIE

Everything I’ve experience will be different than yours, but here’s what to look out for with, you know.

 MAGGIE

Burnout and secondary fermentation and all those things that I think about.

 MAGGIE

Kind of the hazards of our field.

 PATRICK

That must be so rewarding.

 PATRICK

You know to be able to to be in a position to give people a heads up, you know, new clinicians you know.

 PATRICK

Watch out for this pothole.

 PATRICK

Watch out for.

 PATRICK

That yeah.

 PATRICK

Because those are serious things.

 PATRICK

Absolutely burnout is.

 PATRICK

A huge huge issue in this field, so if you can help people get.

 PATRICK

Ahead of it, you know.

 PATRICK

That’s fantastic and you know, I, I envy you.

 PATRICK

You know, I certainly have a passion for helping what you know.

 PATRICK

New clinicians would be clinicians as part of my whole mental health toolbox project.

 PATRICK

You know, as to kind of.

 PATRICK

Help consumers or would be consumers, but also clinicians you know and help them.

 PATRICK

Avoid avoidable suffering.

 PATRICK

Right, but they can show up as them their best selves and serve to their best ability, right?

 PATRICK

So thank you for the work you do.

 PATRICK

It’s definitely dear in my heart.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, I love the way you.

 MAGGIE

Come back to avoid.

 MAGGIE

Unnecessary suffering is that.

 MAGGIE

What you said?

 PATRICK

Yeah yeah alright avoidable suffering absolutely.

I love that.

 PATRICK

Yeah, there’s no need to burn out.

 PATRICK

You know there’s no need, you know.

 PATRICK

And first thing I teach you, you know in my Graduate School is, you know, focus on the small wins.

 PATRICK

It’s like preparing you for.

 PATRICK

Under those, yeah because.

 PATRICK

There’s going to be a lot of unpleasant stories we take on to understand the context. That’s a big part of being a therapist is on the micro levels to you to really understand to the best of our ability. Not that we can ever walk in somebody else’s shoes, but to really get perspective.

 PATRICK

We have to hear the details.

 PATRICK

We have to absorb that and mentally process what that looks like in order to look for points of intervention to help people understand where a coping skill might fit and what’s not going to work.

 PATRICK

Right?

 PATRICK

Yeah, that takes a lot.

 PATRICK

Of mental ram too, yeah.

 MAGGIE

Yes, yeah.

 PATRICK

Then to turn around and practice what we preach.

 PATRICK

You know that’s a whole other thing.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, well, that’s actually one of the things I.

 MAGGIE

Like most about DBT is that.

 MAGGIE

You know, being part of the team.

 MAGGIE

There is.

 MAGGIE

A inherent focus on the idea that you need to use these skills because you’re doing hard work essentially and you will be a crappy provider if you do not take care of yourself.

 MAGGIE

And so I really like that.

 MAGGIE

Personally, accountability to be like.

 MAGGIE

I have a team that I’m gonna go.

 MAGGIE

Like see every.

 MAGGIE

Week, who will ask me things like how’s your mindfulness practice like?

 MAGGIE

Are you using your distress tolerance skills like?

 MAGGIE

What’re you basically just holding me accountable to?

 MAGGIE

Not bury myself out and then.

 PATRICK

Yes, that’s one of my favorite parts.

 PATRICK

Facets of the DBT structure is the group consultation.

 PATRICK

With the other clinicians, because of the accountability.

 PATRICK

And supporting each other, you know in check and then I feel like in my in my experience no other EVP really has that.

 PATRICK

You know, and and the terms.

 PATRICK

Of that that group support.

 PATRICK

That’s easily, easily missed if you don’t make it.

 PATRICK

Make an effort to seek it out via supervision or otherwise.

 PATRICK

Yeah, you’re getting your hours you.

Really what?

 PATRICK

Have the group supervision, but then you know after you’re done getting licensed, that’s not really a thing, so.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, I’m not sure.

 MAGGIE

I thought about that before, but I think he made a really smart point, which is the idea that I don’t know that there are other treatments that are really as focused on.

 MAGGIE

You know, we need to talk about like providing.

 MAGGIE

Therapy for the therapist.

 MAGGIE

But but using DBT skills to treat DVT problems essentially in those contribution teams and really value that, I think that’s one of the big parts at me.

 MAGGIE

Through doing hard.

 MAGGIE

Work with really challenging situations or challenging behaviors that come.

 MAGGIE

Up with clients is.

 MAGGIE

Having people I can rely on and kind of fall back on and.

 MAGGIE

I think that’s really wonderful and unique.

 MAGGIE

Part of DBT and.

 PATRICK

The very shared responsibility too, because I don’t my experience we traded off.

 PATRICK

Leading the groups and Co.

 PATRICK

Leading the groups and everybody had at least one or two of their own clients, you know?

 PATRICK

And so it was.

 PATRICK

It wasn’t very much joint effort and even the way groups are run.

 PATRICK

It’s not like it’s.

 PATRICK

The therapist talking at the consumers it’s we are talking and working on this together and it’s very a lot of common moderate not all in the same boat mentality.

 PATRICK

I think really makes it work.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, definitely.

 PATRICK

I can’t tell my big fan of DBT so.

 MAGGIE

I’m very good.

 PATRICK

Uhm, any other passions that maybe people don’t know about?

 PATRICK

At least not on your professional side.

 MAGGIE

Oh what a good question.

 MAGGIE

There are things.

 MAGGIE

I’m excited.

 MAGGIE

About I don’t.

 MAGGIE

Like it, you can probably tell.

 MAGGIE

Despite how excited I get about many things, I’m like a very shiny person, like a shiny object person where.

 PATRICK

The object.

 MAGGIE

I get very excited.

 PATRICK

Not about.

I would say the things I’ve been.

 MAGGIE

Most excited about recently.

 MAGGIE

We are really doing gender specialty work, I mean.

 MAGGIE

In terms of like.

 MAGGIE

My professional life like as in a winery person.

 MAGGIE

It feels so exciting to.

 MAGGIE

Be able to provide representation to my community.

 MAGGIE

And the folks that I’m serving in that regard.

 MAGGIE

So that’s been I.

 MAGGIE

Think one really exciting.

 MAGGIE

Thing that I’ve been working on.

 MAGGIE

And trying to grow a bit more.

 MAGGIE

I think that.

 MAGGIE

They personally for me that’s been the.

 MAGGIE

Most exciting is.

 MAGGIE

Like dance, actually.

 MAGGIE

It’s the thing I think that has.

 MAGGIE

Helped me maintain my mental health the last years almost above anything else is just having the states to exercise.

 MAGGIE

Like have a community of.

 MAGGIE

People that I’m doing that to share activity.

 MAGGIE

With and it’s still really challenging.

 MAGGIE

For my brain to learn choreography and do.

 MAGGIE

Certain things like that, so been fun.

 PATRICK

It’s very scalable passion, right?

 PATRICK

’cause there’s always something like cooking.

 PATRICK

There’s always something new to.

 PATRICK

Learn plus you’ve got the activity.

 PATRICK

That’s fantastic guys dancing that makes a lot of sense.

 PATRICK

Personal care.

 MAGGIE

Last one exactly.

 PATRICK

Personal villain yeah.

 MAGGIE

Well, and the part that I do personally is like I sort of, moved away from like more serious stands and have really just been doing these classes that are about like learning the choreography of pop stars.

 MAGGIE

And it’s just like a fun to be able to do something that’s totally absurd and like.

 MAGGIE

Also like very fun to get into.

 MAGGIE

And like that’s the type of stuff.

 MAGGIE

I encourage my clients to get into.

 MAGGIE

It’s like it doesn’t matter.

 MAGGIE

That, like it’s odd to other people or whatever it’s.

 MAGGIE

Really about using.

 MAGGIE

This funding from let loose and fully.

 MAGGIE

Participate in to use sign language.

 MAGGIE

Really, at the moment, enjoy it.

 PATRICK

Yeah, yeah.

 PATRICK

Yeah I could.

 PATRICK

Use that advice, I’m the wallflower, never gonna dance.

 PATRICK

I’m the guy going.

 PATRICK

To get another glass of punch.

 MAGGIE

We all have little.

All right?

 PATRICK

Anything we didn’t touch on that you feel is important for our listeners.

 PATRICK

Nuggets of wisdom.

 PATRICK

Maybe for both the consumer and the practitioner.

 PATRICK

Takeaway points that if there’s nothing else they remember from this interview that you would have them walk away with.

 MAGGIE

I think maybe the.

 MAGGIE

Biggest piece right now that I’m working to sort of like educate people about is really the.

 MAGGIE

Idea of normalizing talking about mental health, but in particular severe mental illness.

 MAGGIE

So not just saying that crushing anxiety, which I.

 MAGGIE

Think are really.

 MAGGIE

Things or societies we.

 MAGGIE

Don’t air on recently.

 MAGGIE

But thinking about people who.

 MAGGIE

Are also experiencing more active, more impairing.

 MAGGIE

Type of symptoms who have.

 MAGGIE

More stress that comes from there.

 MAGGIE

Experience overall and mechanick conditions.

 MAGGIE

And really, thinking about it from the perspective of.

 MAGGIE

Again, people would psychosis and people who have heard this server kind of.

 MAGGIE

Again, it’s more an accident or mental health issues to be the ones who are leading the way.

 MAGGIE

Around this and part.

 MAGGIE

Of our model.

 MAGGIE

As therapists or as mental health providers to be to listen to that right.

 MAGGIE

To really take that seriously and not to kind of write off as another delusional behavior or some.

 MAGGIE

Of the things that we might.

 MAGGIE

Have done in the past and really.

 MAGGIE

But those voices leave, so for me, I think my my.

 MAGGIE

Biggest goal is like.

 MAGGIE

Listening to people who are having that experience and being able to integrate that into my work in a much more active way and having that be a really active voice there.

 PATRICK

Yeah, I love that.

 PATRICK

I remember a train I took years ago.

 PATRICK

It was called listening with psychotic ears.

 PATRICK

I was very much to that effect as being being careful to watch her own implicit bias and not just label something as a particular behavior and and be passive about it, but really to to try and figure out what that’s about.

 PATRICK

You know what does that mean to the consumer?

Good move.

 PATRICK

Why is that showing up now or in this situation?

 MAGGIE

Yeah, definitely so I think just more inclusion of people with psychosis.

 MAGGIE

Is kind of the general theme for me.

 MAGGIE

Recently is thinking about like how do we have people at stake holders, right?

 MAGGIE

So we were mentioning kind of integrate them into the work we’re doing, taking them seriously and and also I think just thinking about like but we do have options.

 MAGGIE

For people with.

 MAGGIE

Psychosis there are.

 MAGGIE

Within our wheelhouse that we can provide.

 MAGGIE

And not being scared of that right?

 MAGGIE

Like I think that’s clinicians.

 MAGGIE

Sometimes we get afraid of things that we can’t define or camper, bigger or higher risk issues, but putting this like other mental health issues that we can treat and that are manageable as well and people can have a life worth.

 MAGGIE

Living and how to hopefully chart.

 PATRICK

Yeah, absolutely, we’re going to get a on a whole soapbox about, you know, facilitating more time and space to work on these things, even with in clinic settings?

 PATRICK

Yeah, it’s group setting, staffing the whole bit, you know, caseloads.

 MAGGIE

Absolutely yeah.

Boo Hoo.

 PATRICK

Different conversation.

 PATRICK

I have all the DBT skills.

 PATRICK

What do you feel would be the most are the most maybe effective in helping with mood regulation?

 PATRICK

In your experience.

 MAGGIE

It’s hard to choose just one because you still lose stack on top of each other.

 MAGGIE

That’s a little bit great.

 MAGGIE

Parts you have to be mindful in order to.

 MAGGIE

Know you need a skill that type of life.

 PATRICK

Dear man, give fast problem solving, communication, crisis skills stuff.

 PATRICK

I know I know they break it.

 PATRICK

Up pretty.

 PATRICK

Good by me right?

 PATRICK

Yeah, in fact.

 MAGGIE

I think you know, maybe the way I’ll answer.

 MAGGIE

That question is a bit different than how you asked it.

 MAGGIE

Is actually maybe?

 MAGGIE

This still, but I think my clients find the most fun and they’re most willing to use because I think sometimes of what I have to do is get people to buy into.

 MAGGIE

Using what I’m offering before.

They’re willing to do it, and.

 MAGGIE

I often start with skills that.

 MAGGIE

Are a little bit more.

 MAGGIE

I don’t know I.

 MAGGIE

Think there are more engaging to people.

 MAGGIE

So like I love the distress tolerance skills.

 MAGGIE

I love all of our.

 MAGGIE

Emotion regulation skills.

 MAGGIE

And some of them are a little heavier, so I often will start with people around us to like.

 MAGGIE

Alternate rebellion, which I think.

 MAGGIE

Is really a again a fun skill in the sense of.

 MAGGIE

He the idea being that like for many people we rebel against society and somewhere, yeah, right like either.

 MAGGIE

Or rebelling against boredom against formatting around our diagnosis.

 MAGGIE

Like there’s always something that were rebelling against and the idea is that a lot of people end up using drugs as a waiter about because they kind of want to get like a.

 MAGGIE

Nephew to society.

 MAGGIE

To somebody telling them what to do, etc.

 MAGGIE

But we also engage in.

 MAGGIE

Other harm kind of harmful to ourselves.

 MAGGIE

Behaviors that are not just drug use, right?

 MAGGIE

So like self isolation, right being a big one amongst people or self harm.

 MAGGIE

Or you know a number of other things, and so I often will work on my clients by saying OK.

 MAGGIE

The way you rebelling is coming with some.

 MAGGIE

Consequences, right?

 MAGGIE

Let’s say it’s like.

 MAGGIE

I don’t all use.

 MAGGIE

So let’s instead find something.

 MAGGIE

That still allows you to.

 MAGGIE

Get that like fun rebellious spirit out but.

 MAGGIE

Would have so many consequences.

 MAGGIE

So like, let’s find something.

 PATRICK

Ooh, I like that.

 MAGGIE

Creative, right?

 MAGGIE

Like it could be, you know, going to approach outstanding, your hair, different color, getting a piercing, getting attacked and use a.

 MAGGIE

Temporary tattoos.

 MAGGIE

Start whisper for that.

 PATRICK

Yeah, little hand, in fact yours.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, we could be working with one client for people like her way of rebelling against her partner was to pee in the shower like that was like.

 MAGGIE

Her very simple thing.

 MAGGIE

That was like a way of like F.

Love it.

 MAGGIE

U but like 0.

 PATRICK

Right?

 MAGGIE

Consequences ultimately, no one knew.

 PATRICK

My harm reduction.

 MAGGIE

Exactly, yeah, and I actually think this is really a Hershey story was named that well because it is about the producing the harm associated with certain behaviors and finding things that can still get that like awesome, really important to harness rebellious spirit out in a way that’s going.

 MAGGIE

To come with.

 MAGGIE

You or negative consequences ultimate.

 MAGGIE

So I think that’s one of the ways I sometimes get my clients into doing this.

 MAGGIE

Particularly people like maybe teams or people who are a little.

 MAGGIE

More hesitant to.

 MAGGIE

Engage with me or on DDT and then kind.

 MAGGIE

Of work with other stuff.

 MAGGIE

From there, once they’re bought in.

 PATRICK

I love it.

 PATRICK

I love it.

 PATRICK

It reminds me of that.

 PATRICK

A hierarchy of.

 PATRICK

You know you help people find what they want, so you can lead them to what they need, right?

Right?

 PATRICK

I love it.

 PATRICK

Alright so uhm.

 PATRICK

Where can our listeners find more out about you?

 PATRICK

Where can they go to?

 PATRICK

Learn more about Maggie.

 MAGGIE

Yeah, so definitely my website whichismaggiemullen.com is a great place to start. You can find me on social media.

 MAGGIE

I’m on Instagram at Maggie Mullen, LCSW.

 MAGGIE

I’m also on.

 MAGGIE

Goodreads as an author there.

 MAGGIE

And that’s.

 MAGGIE

Really the easiest.

 MAGGIE

Ways to get in touch with me as well.

 MAGGIE

As LinkedIn as well.

 PATRICK

Beautiful website by the way.

 MAGGIE

Thank you.

 PATRICK

Very nice, nicely polished.

 PATRICK

Your book, where can people find it?

 MAGGIE

Oh yeah, so anywhere.

 MAGGIE

You buy your books.

 MAGGIE

So Amazon good, you know.

 MAGGIE

In books shop.

 MAGGIE

Dot com any of those websites, it’s fine as well as like their local books where you can request.

 MAGGIE

From there you can request from your local library wherever you want to get it, and there’s a link on my website to it, but it’s again the DBT skills workbook for psychosis.

 PATRICK

Fantastic, alright, well I’ll be sure to link up to all of that in the description etc.

 PATRICK

Podcast, blog, YouTube wherever you happen to be absorbing this from.

 PATRICK

Any anything you’d like to add, any questions, comments, concerns?

 MAGGIE

No, I really appreciate the work you’re doing.

 MAGGIE

Passion for having me on today and excited to be sharing.

 MAGGIE

Their little box.

 MAGGIE

Resources with the outside working with.

 PATRICK

Oh, thank you.

 PATRICK

Yes, I’m sure this will be a gem for our listeners.

 PATRICK

Thank you so much for your time and would it be OK if I did a follow up down the road, see how things are going on your world?

 MAGGIE

Of course, yeah.

 PATRICK

OK, great, thank you so much.

 PATRICK

I’ll be checking in with you and, uh, you know down the road see how things are going and feel free to reach out anytime OK?

 MAGGIE

Thank you Patrick.

 MAGGIE

I really appreciate that.

 PATRICK

Alright, thank you.

 PATRICK

Thank you so much.

 MAGGIE

Alright, take care bye.

 PATRICK

Thank you bye bye.

 PATRICK

Well, there you have it.

 PATRICK

Another tool to help you thrive.

 PATRICK

Hey, if you’re getting value from this content and you haven’t done so already, be sure to subscribe like and share.

 PATRICK

It helps us reach more people to raise mental health awareness.

 PATRICK

All right.

 PATRICK

Now go make good things happen.

 PATRICK

Bye bye.


Back to the MHT BLOG

Want to learn more? Check out my top picks for books on self-improvement and recovery HERE!


NEED CRISIS HELP? If you need immediate crisis help with your depression, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or text “START” to 741-741

OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES: See International Suicide Hotlines

WHERE TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP:
-NAMI Referral Helpline: 1-800-950-6264

-California’s Statewide Mental Health Helpline: 1-855-845-7415


ASK: If you have a question you’d like me to answer here on the blog (even if you think it’s a silly one!), please use the form on the CONTACT ME page, or the comment section below. I would be happy to take a poke at it and provide a long form answer when appropriate.

SHARE: Also, be sure to share it with a friend, as there is still a lot of work to be done in raising mental health awareness.

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The Mental Health Toolbox-LLC, is on a mission to raise awareness of effective strategies for increasing quality of life through personal development.
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