Schizophrenia. The word itself often conjures up images fueled by misinformation and stigma. But what is schizophrenia really? What does it mean to live with this complex mental illness, and what are the paths to hope and recovery?
In a powerful new episode of The Mental Health Toolbox, LCSW Patrick Martin dives deep into this often misunderstood topic, joined by two incredible guests: Kody Green, a mental health advocate and TikTok sensation who shares his personal journey with schizophrenia, and Carlos Larrauri, a double board-certified nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatric mental health and family medicine.
Together, they dismantle common myths, provide invaluable insights into diagnosis and treatment, and empower individuals and families to navigate the challenges of schizophrenia with knowledge and compassion.
What You’ll Learn:
This episode is a treasure trove of information, offering perspectives from both the professional and lived experience:
- Fact vs. Fiction: Separating Schizophrenia Realities from Harmful Stereotypes. Cody and Carlos confront the misconceptions that surround schizophrenia, offering a clearer understanding of the illness and the individuals it affects.
- The Power of Early Intervention: Discover why early diagnosis and treatment are absolutely critical for a positive long-term outcome. Carlos shares his expertise on identifying the signs and accessing timely care.
- Practical Strategies for Managing Symptoms: Learn actionable techniques for managing symptoms and improving quality of life, drawn from both professional expertise and personal experience.
- The Pillars of Recovery: Medication, Therapy, and Community Support. Explore the roles that medication, therapy, and especially peer support play in the recovery journey. Both guests emphasize the importance of a holistic approach to mental health.
- Supporting Loved Ones with Schizophrenia: Gain practical advice and essential resources for families and caregivers on how to best support someone with schizophrenia. Learn effective communication techniques and how to navigate the complexities of the healthcare system.
Kody’s Story: Finding Hope and Purpose.
Kody Green’s personal story is a beacon of hope for anyone struggling with a mental health diagnosis. As a mental health advocate with a large following on TikTok, Kody uses his platform to raise awareness, challenge stigma, and inspire others to embrace their own journeys toward wellness.
“This shouldn’t be luck,” Kody says, discussing his relative success in managing the challenges of schizophrenia. “This should be the norm.”
https://www.google.com/url?sa=E&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiktok.com%2F%40schizophrenichippie%3Flang%3DenHis honesty and vulnerability offer comfort and encouragement to those who feel alone in their struggles. Check out Cody Green’s website and follow him on TikTok for more inspiring content.
Carlos’s Expertise: Navigating the Healthcare System.
Carlos Larrauri, a double board-certified nurse practitioner, brings a wealth of clinical knowledge and a compassionate approach to mental healthcare. He emphasizes the importance of early intervention, community support, and personalized treatment plans, empowering individuals to take control of their mental health journey.
You can learn more about Carlos and his work at Carlos’ LinkedIn.
The Importance of Holistic Treatment and Community Support.
Both Kody and Carlos emphasized how essential it is to view schizophrenia in a holistic light. Medicine alone is not enough; it takes a whole community with the right tools to promote positive outcomes. Both also note the importance of self-advocating and being consistent with a treatment regiment.
Key Takeaway:
This episode underscores the powerful message that recovery from schizophrenia is possible. With early intervention, access to comprehensive treatment, and a strong support system, individuals can lead fulfilling and meaningful lives.
Resources for Further Exploration:
- Hope for Schizophrenia: https://www.hopeforschizophrenia.com/what-is-schizophrenia/ A valuable resource for understanding the illness, symptoms, and treatment options.
- Unseen and Unheard Podcast:https://www.hopeforschizophrenia.com/unseen-and-unheard-podcast/ Dive into more discussions and interviews on schizophrenia.
- NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): https://www.nami.org/ A leading organization providing support, education, and advocacy for individuals and families affected by mental illness.
Conclusion:
Schizophrenia is a serious mental illness, but it is not a life sentence. By embracing hope, seeking knowledge, and advocating for better care, we can create a brighter future for those living with this condition. Listen to the full episode of The Mental Health Toolbox to learn more and join the conversation!
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TRANSCRIPT:
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
As mental health professionals, how do we treat people with schizophrenia? How do we help them to our best? Well, that is the question we’ll be addressing today with our two special guests, Cody Green and Carlos Larrari, like Ferrari. Our special guest today will be talking about how we can address schizophrenia from both a personal and professional perspective. Cody is someone who has struggled with schizophrenia himself and has become a motivational speaker. Has over 1,000,000 followers on TikTok and will be speaking from his personal experience and is an advocate. And we’re also joined by a nurse practitioner, Carlos, who is double board certified as a nurse practitioner with family medicine and psychiatric mental health, as well as he’s a law student, and he also holds a master’s in business administration. So we’ll be joining with them. They’re going to talk from their personal experience about how we can best guide those with schizophrenia, and I’m so excited to be covering this topic for the first time. So without further ado, Carlos Cody, welcome to the Mental Health Toolbox.
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah. Thank you so much for having us.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
My pleasure. This is gonna be. This gonna be fun and I’ve heard it said there’s roughly about 2.8 million people who struggle with schizophrenia in the United States at any given point. That right?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
That’s right. And it affects about 1% of the population, give or take, and and maybe it’s helpful to backpedal. So people can get a little more context about what schizophrenia is. You know, we know schizophrenia is a complex chronic condition. Serious mental. It’s characterized by distortions of people’s thoughts, perceptions. Emotions, language, behavior that can interrupt everything from personal relationships to career aspirations. And although you know the cause is the exact cause of schizophrenia are largely unknown, we know it’s a combination of genetic and environmental factors. And the important thing to take away is it’s not anyones fault. As a result of something they did or did not do, that ca. Conditions.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Absolutely. Thank you so much for touching on that because as mental health professionals, we we know what schizophrenia is. But for those who aren’t familiar with the mental health world, schizophrenia can come in different shapes and sizes as we know, right. That could be, you know, could struggle with more. You can struggle more hallucinations. You can be more disorganized. That could be negative symptoms, positive symptoms, and so it’s not a one-size-fits-all much like any other condition. We don’t want to lump it into just one category, right? Anxiety or depression? It’s we’re talking about humans and the human experience. And, you know, I think it’s messy and. I’m so excited to have the both of you on because you both have personal experience with schizophrenia, right? Personal diagnosis, yes.
Speaker
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Right. And you have not let that rob you our quality of life. You found a way to thrive despite the diagnosis. And so that is really the power of this podcast is learning from people such as yourselves who have found a way to thrive. And so thank you for taking time to share that today. Absolutely so. Cody, maybe we can start with you want to share a little bit about your experience and how you have learned to leverage such a platform around raising? We know you have over a million followers on Tiktok, content creator, motivational speaker, like how did you get into this work and what did that look like for you? Coming from. A diagnosis like schizophrenia. That’s hard enough to do without any hardships.
****KODY GREEN****
Well for.
Speaker
Right.
****KODY GREEN****
And I, you know, my journey with schizophrenia actually started with my. So I was a caregiver for my mother, who has schizoaffective disorder. So years before I ever got a diagnosis or even struggled with symptoms. Schizophrenia was already a big part of my life. When I went off to college, my mom was finally doing well, had a proper diagnosis, medication, and it was my first year at college that I started having episodes of psychosis, and I suffered a psychotic break. I started having auditory and visual hallucinations as well as paranoia and delusions, and so. I always say that I don’t think anyone plans on being a mental health advocate. I think it’s, you know, something that is. Really, a person making the best of a situation, and that’s kind of what I did and from the perspective of of being a caregiver and a patient, I thought I could really help people better understand schizophrenia. Help people see you know the misconceptions surrounding it. And so when I started doing advocacy and I started posting videos online, I didn’t really anticipate for it to reach as many people as it has. But it really showed me that one, a lot of people were interested in learning more about schizophren. But two, that there were a lot of misunderstandings or misconceptions about mental illness and schizophrenia. And so I’m just really like lucky to be able to work with people like Carlos and other schizophrenia advocates to help try to correct some of these things that people think they know about. The illness that I live.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
With I love how you phrase that. People think they know. Yeah. Nice. And the longer I’ve been in a mental health practitioner for 13 years and the the longer I’m in this work, the more real is. Don’t know, right? There’s so much to. There’s so much we don’t know. And so much of it is just a messy science. Right. I think about mental health is kind of like where?
Speaker
Part.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Science. But it’s also very much art and you know, trying to figure out. Throughout, how do we how do we work on people? Puzzles, despite the things we don’t know? And how do we help guide others and empower others to to live their best lives with the tools at hand? Right. And like, this is a messy science, right where we’re talking. Or anything else. It’s, it’s tricky, it’s tricky. Yeah, so absolutely love the work you’re doing. I just want to kind of put your your channel on blast here for a minute. Is your TikTok right?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
That’s fantastic. So wonderful and uh. I see you’re doing well there over 1.3 million followers 42.6 million likes. And the big thing about that is that means you’re raising awareness, right?
Speaker
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
There are people out there who want to know how to thrive, right?
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah. Over over all of my.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
With these.
****KODY GREEN****
I have over a billion views on my page is combined, so to me that really started showing like this not only allowed me to reach new people. People. But it was allowing me to reach patients living with schizophrenia. Friends and family members. And then, you know, doctors, psychiatrists. I got to reach people that I always wanted to be able to, you know, help better understand. What schizophrenia looks like?
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Yeah, because of stigma. Just like anything else, people will come to their own conclusions about what the media has told us something is. And it’s much better to understand it from somebody’s lived experience and to really be curious and and seek that psychoeducation and other possible make assumptions, right.
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah, absolutely.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
And so that’s why I love the work you’re doing. And I believe in tools up front on this podcast. That’s why I always like to share these. On the front end, this is your website. Cody Green, Cody with ak.com. This is where people can learn more about all the work you’re doing there. Excellent.
****KODY GREEN****
And there’s it was some of the things not featured on my website are the unseen and Unheard podcast. That’s also that also lives on the hope for schizophrenia.com website. And that’s a really great resource for anyone who is looking For more information about. Schizophrenia as well.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
I’ll make sure I tie all that up into the show notes, of course. And does it help for schizophrenia com?
****KODY GREEN****
Yep, so there’s a bunch of resources on here, but if you go to real stories and understandings schizophrenia, there will be the unseen and unheard podcast, as well as more information about what schizophrenia really looks like. Some of the symptoms. Just a lot of information for people that might not know a lot about the illness.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
How fantastic. This is beautiful. What you’ve put together here. It’s so clearly organized. It’s. Got a nice user interface. I can tell you this is your passion project. Is your baby. Right.
****KODY GREEN****
Not my. So it’s just one that the podcast lives on and that’s. With a partnership that I have with Johnson and Johnson, they actually created this website as a resource.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
What a great backing to have. Yeah, absolutely wonderful. Yeah, you’re big time. All right, good stuff and. Carlos. How this is this is your your LinkedIn right? Right.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
I’m sure we look into. So everybody can see the work you’re doing there. You’ve been busy. Like we’re talking about. I know you like to stay busy and I’m going to guess it has something to do with your your coping mechanisms too. Yourself challenged and.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yep. Absolutely right. Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Absolutely. Do you want to share a little bit about how you got into this work of mental health and and being an advocate for schizophrenia as well as a practitioner?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
That’s. That’s right. Sure. Well, you know. Like Cody, it was kind of a family affair for me as well, except it had, you know, given that I come from a Hispanic background and Latino culture, it wasn’t often talked about, you know. I I didn’t really have an awareness of the kind of family history I had of people with mental health issues. Until I got. But then kind of is when the stories came out that oh, you know, you had a aunt or family member that struggled and then. And back home in, in. Cuba, for example, they had to get hospitalized or get care and things like. So and which speaks again to this kind of genetic basis for this illness and this tendency to run in families. You know and and for me, I always love being a student. Always excelled at school so. I codia went off to college and and as often is the case for many adolescents and young adult, that often coincides with a period of vulnerability for mental health conditions. And for me, I started to have symptoms at college that interfered with my ability to achieve my academic and professional goals. You know, fortunately, had a family friend who had known for a long time. Who told my mom was happening and she came to campus and we met with my academic advisor and there were able to start having conversation about the mental health challenges I was having. On. Which kind of speaks to the importance of having a community of support. Often when you’re struggling with these conditions. It’s not the type of illness that you can just kind of pick yourself. Yourselves up. The bootstraps you know, you need people to step up and and and advocate for you and care for you when you’re most vulnerable. So fortunately I had that immense, you know, Community support of friends and families and was able to get early intervention in the form of a diagnosis. Access to medication, and with that I was able to empower myself, learn about the Ole Miss, learn about the risk factors, learn about the protective factors so forth. And I decided I wanted to get back. Wanted to help people. Particular people that were going through or will go through what I went through. So I became a clinician and became a psychiatric nurse practitioner. And from there I I worked in the field as a mental health professional for a number of years. But recently I graduated law and policy school of the Aspiration of, of having a kind of a greater impact and and and achieving more of a systemic. Change by advocating for mental health policy. You know, I’m, I’m somewhat MBA. So Cody’s impact reaching over, you know a billion you know, millions of people and over a billion views. I mean that’s you know that’s that’s incredible. And hopefully one day I’ll yeah yeah I can I can achieve something of that sort. For now. I’m happy, you know, studying for the bar exam as you mentioned and continuing with my professional goals. The. Thing to take away is that even with this illness. Look, it’s still possible to, you know, find. A way to to move forward and and and and pursue goals and and give yourself a meaningful opportunity of. I think you know, early intervention plays a big part of that. Community support plays a big part of that and and peer support part of what we. Do coding myself at the end of. Day is we’re. We share our story to inspire others to provide education, to provide resources, and to advocate for this population. So. That’s a little bit about about my story, and I’m just grateful for the opportunity to have the platform on. Podcast to say so. Thank you.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Yeah, I appreciate. Wouldn’t wouldn’t be here without you guys, so appreciate it. And you touched on something important there. Said early intervention. Right. How important is it ’cause as a as a therapist and correct me if I’m wrong, but schizophrenia usually will manifest between ages of 18 and 24, give or take is often times where you see it in college. Age youth of the first episode, right? Psychotic break is it? Sometimes called. How imperative is it to have an early? What happens if we don’t get the treatment in a timely fashion at the first sign of trouble?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Well, I certainly know the impact it’s had on my life as far as allowing me an opportunity to recovery as a, as a patient advocate, but also as a clinician, you know, we know that the duration of untreated psychosis increases the the risk of of a more diffic. Course of illness. And and and so just like any other illness, if you’ve, you know, recently had a heart attack. In that field, they say, you know, time is muscle. If you’ve had a brain attack, you know, time is brain. It’s quite possibly could be that the longer you go untreated with psychosis, the harder it will be to recover and the harder it will be to. Achieve the goals that you want in your life so. Early interventions absolutely critical. As is the case with many other illnesses, unfortunately we have a long way to go there, but at least now we’re appreciating just how important it is.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Yeah, absolutely. Well. And I’ve I’ve I remember being at a seminar when they were talking about bipolar disorder and mania, and they were talking about how important it is to have to prevent as many future manic episodes as possible. With every episode, it’s more difficult to return to baseline.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
That’s.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Right, get the the technical term for that. Don’t know if it’s neurodegenerative or.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
That’s it’s quite possible that for some people that this illness takes that kind of course and and it’s partly because people aren’t getting their intervention or being able to be on a medication regimen with consistency. One at metaphor. This is kind of like a rubber. The more you have these episodes and the more you stretch out, the more band it kind of loses its elasticity. It’s kind for the brains. Cognitive reserves, if you. The more episodes you have, the more it might have residual effects. Term it’ll it’ll affect your, you know, functioning and so forth.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Yeah, makes. That’s a great, great analogy for it. Absolutely. And So what is? I’m I’m wondering was that experience like so for for gentlemen such as yourselves who have experienced first hand what? Schizophrenia looks and feels like maybe Cody could start with you. What? What? What was it like living that experience with the onset? I mean, I can imagine it must be terrifying.
****KODY GREEN****
You know, it’s it’s terrifying looking back, but there’s such a level of delusion with schizophrenia that whilst in it I didn’t recognize how bad it was. The people around me certainly did, but because of how delusional I was, I didn’t even think anything was wrong with me. With me at one point I was having delusions that, you know, this wasn’t an illness. It was actually me gaining the ability to hear the thoughts of people around me. And so like, at no point did I actually register this as a problem. People always ask me that. Like, was it scary? And now that I’m aware now that I have medication, but I still have symptoms occasionally, I think there’s more. Of a like fright. Now for me, like I I definitely have more confusion more. More emotions surrounding my symptoms because I’m more self aware now. That’s, you know, that’s just one of the unfortunate things with being someone who’s medicated is when I wasn’t medicated, I didn’t recognize that anything was wrong with me. I’m so. Full to only have symptoms occasionally, but it does come with, you know. Self-awareness of hey, I have schizophrenia. I do still have breakthrough symptoms and that’s really scary, you know, and that’s something that I didn’t experience early on because of the delusion.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Right. So we’re talking about insight, right?
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah, absolutely.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
If you’re, if you’re that. First experience in episode. This is all new to you. There’s a disconnect with. With reality, it feels natural to you because there’s a lack of insight and sometimes you don’t realize. Sounds like that what you’re experiencing is abnormal, or at least a condition.
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah. Well, and this is you got to remember too. Was a caregiver for someone with schizophrenia? Know what schizophrenia looks? Maybe better than most people, even at a young age. And even with the knowledge and education I had around it, it was still difficult for me to identify that in myself.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Absolutely. So what do you think helped in your experience? Kind of bridge that. Gap back to reality or to to being receptive to help.
****KODY GREEN****
I mean, like Carlos, it was community. Was my. It was my mom. I was very lucky that the people around me were concerned, and unfortunately it did take me a while to reach out. I struggled for several, several years trying to self medicate through addiction. And so I went undiagnosed for a couple of years and. The only reason I finally reached out was because I knew that I was unwell, but I didn’t recognize it was schizophrenia. Just could tell that like I wasn’t able to keep up with everyone else. Couldn’t hold a job. I had to drop out of school. I literally felt like I couldn’t get through a day without some sort of substance, and so that’s why I reached. Not because I thought I was mentally ill. And little did I know that my mom and my wife during that time had been preparing a doctor, a psychiatrist, peer support groups, other resources, so that when I did reach out, I had all of that access. And my mom, who unfortunately went very long, undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. She kind of set up a very quick process for me because once she was formally diagnosed and then I showed symptoms, it was very easy for me to get in, get a diagnosis, get treatment, get medication because I had, you know, any psychiatrist could look at my family. History and see that I had a genetic. You know, genetic predisposition for it because of my. So you know her struggle through her mental health journey actually made it so that I could get very quick and early access.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
What a wonderful way to create meaning right from such a difficult experience for your mom. You said they paved the road for you, which is huge. As we know, we also know because you touched on substance use and self medicating. Think that might. That’s sometimes a convoluted topic because a lot of people will assume that persons just having symptoms because they’re they’re on drugs, but in the mental health world we know. That it’s usually when it’s not just the chicken and the egg. We know often times in organic condition leads to substance abuse because. For whatever you know, it’s sometimes the. The first line of defense people learn in terms of managing their symptoms, right? If they if they’re not familiar with the mental health.
****KODY GREEN****
For sure, and if someone is, you know in in times where I did have moments of clarity, there was a stigma that I had. Mental illness, especially living in a small rural area.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
News.
****KODY GREEN****
There’s a stigma around mental illness that I didn’t want to be labeled as someone with mental ill. Just the same way that there’s a stigma around. I didn’t want to be that 19 year old kid on medication. So even if I had brief moments of clarity in that period. It would. I wouldn’t reach out because I was afraid of labels. I was afraid of people judging me for, you know, I I had saw how people treated my mom growing up and kids weren’t allowed to come over to our house because my mom had mental illness. And it you. The Midwest, you know, small rural areas all over the country have this issue too. I know Carlos had talked about it and his. In his community, and this is a problem in a lot of different, you know, communities and groups and areas where people don’t want to talk about it.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Well, Cody, how did you? Did you navigate that? How? You learn to be to accept the diagnosis. And how did you? How did you learn to communicate that to others in a way that? That felt OK for you. Or tolerable.
****KODY GREEN****
I think one of the things that you know I it took a long time, but peer support was a big thing. Carlos had mentioned peer support my very first. Like example of sharing my story was going to a local peer support group and being confident enough to tell everyone else about, you know, my daily life. And I didn’t even do that on the first time. The first couple times I went and I didn’t say anything cuz. Was too nervous once I heard stories from other people, I started seeing similarities and that gave me the confidence to tell my own story. Sorry, when I started telling my story, I found that there’s a couple different ways that I do it. Is I. I am a storyteller, but I also find that comedy is a way that I cope and it’s a way that I am able to tell my story and have it not be so draining. And so I started tying in. Comedy to some of my content and that allowed me to reach even more people who were afraid to talk about schizophrenia and they didn’t want to open that door. Know comedy, I think, opened the door so that people could peek their head in and stick around and actually learn a lot.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Huge, right? As it breaks the ice again, the stigma.
****KODY GREEN****
Yeah, absolutely.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Have a way to kind of reduce the tension in the room, and sometimes that’s by laughing at ourselves a little bit, you know, and kind of learning how to relate to other people. And that’s huge. A wonderful coping skill and I appreciate you sharing. And it’s just something I’m personally very curious about because I work with so many clients and that’s one of the the biggest challenges with even asking for mental health help. Is you know how people are going to see me or if I take medication, what does that mean about me? And I don’t want to be labeled and I don’t want to be that person, you know? So there’s just so much of. Work that has to be done. And then how do you communicate to other people or even in relationships and dating? How do you? How do you bring it up? Do you bring it? You know what does that look like? And I know it’s a little bit different for everybody, but that’s usually one of the biggest hurdles with being consistent with treatment.
****KODY GREEN****
Right. Well, I, me and Carlos, when he came on my podcast had a an amazing conversation about goals and setting goals. And so like with Carlos doing all the amazing things he’s doing, I don’t think I could go back to school. Have that sort of focus in my life. But he, you know, he talked about setting really small goals and moving from there, like when we were we both talked about being very early on in our journey and at one point my only goal was to get out of bed that day, you know, and starting with. Small goals and moving to things like. You know, becoming a board certified nurse practitioner and going to law school because that wasn’t enough for. You know, he had to keep going back so, but I found that, you know, I find that like to be a huge thing for me. And now after that conversation, I recommend it to people all the time.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Absolutely find ways to challenge yourself or meaningful ways. And because the question Carlos you know now that you’re in this, you know, professional position, you have been for a while now. Like how how do you navigate clients through? These waters, when you know from, like early diagnosis through treatment like what are those conversations typically look like? How do you? How does a clinician support somebody who’s experiencing schizophrenia? Those are some great.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Questions, and I think it boils back down to some things we’ve talked about, which are education, you know and. Empathy and. I think you mentioned humility in the beginning there as well, and it’s important, especially as a professional serving the population to approach this. This caring for people with humility, understanding that you know you may be a technical expert, but they’re they’re the experts by their own lived experience and and the caregivers are as well because they live with the patient, the individual and see them much more often, so you know. With some. Kind of viewing this as a partnership where you’re not just, you know, I’m here to tell you what rather, let’s look at this together, you know, how can I help you achieve your goals and perhaps how can medical care or treatment align with that so viewing? Viewing care in a matter that’s holistic, that sees the person 1st and sees what their values and goals and aspirations are. And you know, it’s also, you know, we’re also in positions of. So when we can advocate for other people using our platforms, using our voice and so forth, that’s important as well. But I think if you know that’s kind of has been my philosophy, I’m also in somewhat of a unique position, but I have the lived experience. As well and I do find that that does enrich my practice because, you know, sometimes patients, especially when they’re in the early phase of the illness, they may not fully appreciate it. But when I share my personal experience and you know to to caregivers, they really kind of light up and they really see the value in that because they know how important it is for their loved ones. Often their sons or daughters or so forth to to engage with other people with. It’s the power of peer support once more and and and so that’s a little bit about how I kind. Approach it. But again, you know, we can always be continuing to educate. We can always be try to be lend a apathetic and listening ear and and and and we can. You know, you know, try to fight for others as well.
Speaker
I.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Appreciate that. I appreciate that. Can’t be emphasized enough. Not just support in House clinic, but Community support, peer support, right? Having that village. And I think that’s often times a missing piece in treatment. You know you come in to see the psychiatrist or the the practitioner every three months. You know for your injections or your medication. You know, they don’t come around again to the clinic and sometimes they don’t have anything on the. They have very difficult home lives. You know, clients, you know, come from all walks of life. But having that support is huge. That sounds like.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Well, you know, they say it takes a village to raise a. It takes that same village to to heal that that teenagers mind when they’re when they’re struggling. And you know, often when, you know, I get my clinical hat. We’re often the last person to to really hear about what’s happening, what’s going on. Really, friends and families that are often the first line so. You know, listen to them and when you can’t educate them so they can pick up on the warning signs or the red flags and and and and urge the person to consider care. And that was the case with me in my recovery, where it was my my friends. Had known me for a long time and saw the changes in college and and my family saw the changes at home that were able to then. Inform the providers. This is what’s really happening, because I also struggled with that kind of lack of self. At first. It’s kind of a double edged. It can lead to, you know, trouble or ambivalence or antagonism toward getting care. It’s also kind of a form of grace. When you truly appreciate what is happening. It’s quite terrifying and. And you know, unlike what Cody said, it was. Was. On in my recovery, when I still had. Occasional setbacks that I was like, really the most afraid because. You know, I didn’t want to go back to where I was before. But unfortunately for for me and for many others, you know, if you stick with it with the recovery, with, with one’s goals, with the medication, with the, the kind of holistic approach to it, also peer support, community therapy, the whole, the whole toolkit. I think it does get better and I really do think you know it. Can get a little easier and it can get better, so you know it’s it’s it’s important for us also to convey that kind of hope and optimism to people, especially people struggling early on where they may not. They may not feel that there is a future that where. Can get better.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Actual hope. Hope is someone for it.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
And I I really appreciate what you said about on the practitioner side learning how to elicit. Support and information from collaterals, right? That, friends, be that family.
Speaker
Yeah.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
At the systems. Find out who has the best you know, connections and perspective and who can keep you informed, right and how you can, how you can maintain those flows of information for the client to keep them. On track. Even from afar, it’s important, and that, you know, it’s important to remember, as practitioners, you know, intake right, that we make sure that we’re getting those consents in place because somebody’s coming in with that through a hospital discharge.
Speaker
Yep.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Or or just families bringing them in because they’re experiencing symptoms for the first time. They’re lip disoriented or paranoid, or whatever it may be, sometimes that that’s your. Your little window of opportunity to get consent right from family and something may happen between intake and the next time you see that client. And if you don’t have the consent on file, your hands are kind of tied clients.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yep, Yep.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Not answering the phone voicemail’s full. Oftentimes those those things are. You know, pretty common when somebody’s going through psychosis. They just kind of phone goes by the wayside. Can’t really reach. And then next thing you know, you don’t you don’t hear from them again till they come out of. Hospital, right?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
That was true for me and my story, where it wasn’t until I consented to have my family be part of the conversation that we were able to treat me in the most effective way possible. This is a developmental Commission, so I think treating the family. Should or incorporating the family when possible, when appropriate, should be the norm? It’s not often it. It can be challenging because sometimes it can cut both. With family, they can be support, but they can also be a source of challenge for people. And then, of course, you know, there’s the the legal regime we operate in which people are considered adults after 18. And and and that could pose a barrier as well. But I guess in my story, it wasn’t until we were able to have honest conversations by by getting, you know, the perspective of family members at at the clinical assessment that we were able to. Really move forward.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Yeah. How do you? How do you suppose that? Can best equip family. To to support their loved ones who are going through something like schizophrenia like. In your experience, like in either of your experiences, how can we? How can we as practitioners? Kind of bring that support to the. How can we firm up their foundation, their education? What are? What options do we have?
****KODY GREEN****
I would think one thing that I would have loved to see more of would be honest communication, even if it’s not what the patient or the family wants to. Here for example, I was never told that when I started medication, I would still have breakthrough symptoms. And so when I started medication, my thought process is OK. I’m finally doing it, but at least it’ll be a cure all. Fix everything and then when it didn’t, I was extremely disappointed and I quit my meds. And that’s from what I hear, very common for patients with schizophrenia or psychosis. And so equipping both the patient and caregivers with. Honest like this is going to be work. Here are things to lookout for. Are common things that people with schizophrenia face. Like the two things that I’ve dealt with, I know most other schizophrenia advocates have dealt with, which was, you know, quitting my meds because they didn’t work as well as I had hoped. And then when my meds started working really well, I quit because I didn’t think I needed them anymore. Which are both really common things I hear from peers and advocates. And if that’s? Let parents know like this is something that we might have to be aware of that could happen in the. Just examples like that like you know, there are things that we see so commonly, and I know that practitioners are seeing it because I see it as an advocate just talking to other advocates and patients. So I know that there’s really common patterns. I think if we were honest, it might help prevent some of these issues we see moving forward.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Absolutely. Thank you, Cory. Read my. I was just thinking as you were talking about that that yes, one of the biggest problems I see is that when the symptoms do start to become mitigated, that that clients will like, oh, I’m better now, I don’t need the medication. Then next thing you know and it. Because some medication has higher half life than others. Mike. So something like Seroquel, maybe in the system longer than another, and especially if you’re on injections. Yeah, you know, you might not have another episode even if. If we’re not talking about specifically the medication, but just episodes in general, right? Because somebody has a condition. In that without medication, they’re going to have symptoms chronically. It can be seasonal or the episodes can be over six months, maybe once a year, that the major episodes like with even with bipolar and mania. It’s not. It’s not always the same for everybody. And so that’s why we say it’s a messy science, right? And so understanding to your point, Cody, how we can educate family and clients ahead of time about. So these are some of the the hurdles we see often times. Right, and these are reasons that sometimes there is trouble making progress or I’ve even seen with clients, sometimes medications they may decide to side effects, it makes them too groggy. Can’t think straight libido. I mean, there’s a number of things that can become. That can become intolerable.
****KODY GREEN****
And that’s. Yeah. And I think that’s another thing where I I also experienced frustration with that. If it had been communicated with me. Up front, I think we’re so afraid of turning people away from meds that we’re afraid to be honest about them. And I don’t think that’s the right solution. And so like I think we need to be like hey, here are some things to look out for, but. If it works out and your medication works the way it’s supposed to, you’ll have clarity. Be able to you. You’ll you’ll have a life that you didn’t think you you would get to have. Like it’s still more pro than con. And I think we’re painting it too much. Of a you know, glamorous picture. We’re doing what I try not to do on social media, which is I call Instagram filter it. I feel like we’re Instagram filtering the future for people and I think we need to put a real image on like hey.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
****KODY GREEN****
There will be stuff that makes this. Here are some things to look out for, but in return you’ll be able to, you know, function day-to-day. You’ll be able to potentially go back to work and find success. Back to. All of these things that you wouldn’t have without the medic.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Huge, huge and I love that you touch on the fact that yes, we need to be direct. We need to be real. We need to be authentic with clients. And decarlos like you said, balance out with empathy because we’ve seen I’ve seen both sides of that. You know, I’ve seen some, you know, some psychiatrists who are just very matter of fact and stern and like, this is the way that you. I’m gonna. For you at all, you know, or yours being noncompliant, as opposed to saying like, this is gonna be hard. This is going to be an uphill battle. Is gonna be messy. It’s gonna be trial and error. It’s gonna take months to even see if these medications work. Right. And then if they’re not, then we might have to add a second or third or we might have to switch stuff out and you’ll have to start all over with new side effects. Know having those conversations. If you said Cody, there is the fear and I’ve had this myself. Know about. You know, I don’t scare clients. Or maybe they’re coming in and they’re, you know, not just having psychosis, but they’re depressed too. You know, I don’t want to. Don’t want to, you know. Tell them all this medication might make you more suicidal, you know? That it’s for me to. ‘Cause, I’m not a doctor, but having those conversations. And and terms of what they expect, sometimes it’s it is, you know, takes a bit of finesse. I think empathy and being direct is a great approach, to be sure. We kind of just touched on that. Nurse practitioner. I mean, for those who aren’t familiar with the language. That’s not your average nurse. Nurse practitioner can prescribe nurse practitioners function like psychiatrists right in the mental health world. And much like you would see like APA right in the. Yeah, in the primary setting, nurse practitioners and psychiatric settings, they. They diagnose, you know, they carry a lot of that, that charge a lot of that weight and responsibility and it’s a very powerful position to be in. And and your experience, Carlos like when it comes to the medication conversations like, what does that look like from a practitioner and client standpoint? Like what? What can one expect for if somebody’s listening and they’ve never been through the process? If they walk into a clinic like, what can they expect?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Well, I mean, you know you you’ve raised some great points and Cody has a lot of. Site. It’s, you know, speaking to the the clinicians now you know, we get anywhere from 15 to minutes to an. It’s it’s a lot to try to educate and Orient someone to a potential diagnosis and what this might mean moving forward. That’s. I think it’s important in bear to be again that it’s that, you know, we have to offer. Evidence based sources of information. And education, as as mentioned earlier, there’s the hope for schizophrenia website the unseen on her podcast is also organizations like NAMI, the National Alliance and Mental Illness, which are a great source of information. Education about these conditions. Also, you know which was instrumental my recovery and which I refer to. My clients as a. As a clinician, you know attending their services like support groups and an education program. So you can continue to learn not just from providers but from people who have lived experience. We have a unique kind of insight that comes from navigating these challenges, so. So you know it’s it’s, it’s almost an impossible task to really do all that within the first kind of or the first couple meetings with someone. It’s really a process that takes time and and it takes again that community approach and learning from peers and people live experience as well as. Clinicians and professionals, and I think it’s really important what Cody was saying about painting a realistic picture. You know, we are examples of people that have been able to be successful and done well, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s been easy. You know, I’m sure our lives. Harder with this illness than without it. Doesn’t mean it’s still not possible or not worth pursuing. You know, for us, I think we realized it’s kind of a no brainer when you realize what the alternatives are of ending up incarcerated or homeless or Strang from people that you love. You know you take the medic. Because you know that you don’t have much, you know, it’s really the best. Option that give you a fighting chance, but even then it’s it’s it’s by no means an assurance. And you know what I tell people is the medication is necessary. But it’s often insufficient. Often not. You need to lay that foundation and then build the House of recovery on top of that. Your whole toolbox with your. Psycho education with your therapy, with your peer support, with your advocacy, with your support of work in school. You know the big picture. What people really want, not just staying at hospitals and staying stable. That takes that takes, you know, months and years, and this is something also that because of that time frame, you got to give yourself a little patience and a little grace to go through that messy science trial Mayer process of getting the right medication that. You know Tron air process. Finding the right therapist and so forth and so on. You know.
****KODY GREEN****
It’s it’s this.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Is these are kind of some of the insights I’ll share with my you know, patients and clients. Again, it bears. But it’s it’s it’s it’s a process that takes time and and the more you can scaffold in different information from different sources, the better it could be for the person who’s who’s going through this. Journey for the first time and like myself, I had no awareness. What mental health? I never talked about it at the dinner table. Never you. And then you kind of get, you get, you know you get. You know, kind of struck by both the Lightnings, so to speak, and you suddenly have to. Almost become a little bit of an expert, even if you don’t have the credentials yet. At the end of the name, you gotta you gotta kind. Arm yourself with knowledge and and and learn. You know what you have to do to manage this condition because it takes work to, to, to, to live with and manage the long term.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Self preservation. Absolutely.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Wow.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
It’s no longer a theory. It’s your life.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Yep, that’s what I that’s what I tell people. I don’t have the luxury of wondering about bird migratory patterns or geological formations like I have to learn a lot about mental health because this was like this is it. Is what this was the challenge ahead of me, and I knew this was the most important thing I had to. To to to control or manage so that I could have the best quality of life I. So, you know, went so far as to become an expert in it as as as a as a clinician, as an advocate, as a researcher. But I think also that’s not uncommon. Lot of people have mental health conditions or adversities and they and they see. You know, I want to take what I’ve learned from this, and I want to help others. Kind of the wounded healer, so to speak concept and. And or become an advocate like Cody and become an educator of people and have an impact on a steel that you can’t. Have on a one to one with with people you know by using social media. Other avenues, which is incredible.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
So it’s huge that we even, I mean they live in a world like today where we have. You can create your own platform to educate others. Why I love? That’s why I created this podcast. Not just I need something else. Do but. Because, you know, I don’t think this knowledge should be. These conversations should be reserved just for the therapy room on a one to one, right? There’s too many people out there who need. To have these conversations, who need to be in the know. We need to be raising awareness, a larger scale, and I think every, every, everybody or every person should have some way that they are contributing to society in a meaningful way through their lived experience and especially in the mental health well. And so that’s why I just love the work. Both are doing. Excited to see where it goes. I’m curious how you guys came to know each. Was it through your podcast, Cody, or what happened? How did? Did you guys get into? Same room.
****KODY GREEN****
I like to joke that because of my very large social media following, I’m friends with every schizophrenic person on the planet now. And so like we just, it was a lot of the same. We I heard his name at. I’m sure he heard about me through social media and stuff and it just like I don’t know where we first got to meet the podcast was the first time. I think we really got to connect. Have a conversation, but we were aware of each other before. So it’s just been one of those things where I’ve been very lucky in this journey of, like, doing social media and doing the podcasts that I’ve got to work with. People like Carlos on the on the unseen and unheard. I even got to interview my mom for the last episode and talk about not just her journey through schizoaffective disorder, but what it was like having to watch her son go through a similar diagnosis. So. I’m I’m just very like, you know, lucky and fortunate to have this platform and have this. Ability to kind of be a voice for the voiceless because I know there will be a lot of people with schizophrenia who will never be at a point where they can share their story. You know, even though we only make up 1% of the population, I think I saw a study that said we make up almost 20% of the homelessness rate. And so and that’s not you know it.
Speaker
That’s huge.
****KODY GREEN****
There’s also so many people incarcerated. Many people struggling with addiction. And so me and Carlos are very lucky, but I feel like we could be better, like we shouldn’t be. This lucky. You know, there should be. This should be more of a norm if people had early intervention, access to treatment and medication, this could be more of a thing where I’m meeting more and more people living full and functional lives with schizophrenia. But. You know I every day I’m seeing more and more people coming out, sharing their story, and for that I’m so grateful.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Well said, Cody. Well said. Right should be the norm, right? Or say it another way. Shouldn’t you shouldn’t have to be the exception. Absolutely, yeah. And that’s why I I love what you’re. You’re raising hope and awareness and you’re showing that you can have a quality, meaningful life, a full life, despite having a diagnosis like schizophrenia. And I love even the way you phrase it ’cause I can. You’re an advocate when you say I have. Schizophrenia, as opposed to saying I. Schizophrenic. Huge difference, right? It doesn’t define you. Absolutely, absolutely. And Carlos? Curious. So nurse practitioner to law student and now you’re prepping for your bar exam. Is there a connection between your pursuit of your law degree and the work you’re doing now? It. Does it translate?
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
Absolutely. I think you know I have the lived experience as being a patient and navigating the healthcare system and seeing all the ways that it, it still has to improve. You know, for example primary care and and behavioral healthcare don’t often coordinate very well. And when you live. An illness like schizophrenia. You’re not, you know, passing away early or struggling with more health issues necessarily because of psychosis, but because of preventable chronic primary care health conditions like. Heart disease or or other kind of conditions that are treatable and preventable. But again, because there’s no often no coordination between primary care and behavioral health, it’s left to the patient, the caregivers, to to coordinate that and advocate for, you know, the care they need and and that. A tall order for anyone, let alone someone struggling with this illness.
Speaker
Hmm.
****Carlos Larrauri, JD, MPA, MSN****
I think I have the perspective. Of of. Navigating the system both as a patient. And as a clinician and my hope is with the law and policy education, it’ll open doors that allow me to continue to push for mental health care reform and to build a system like coded, he said. With the norm. And the expectation is people get early intervention people. Get support in their community and not in institutions where people. Have access to a variety of treatment so they can find out what works for them and so forth. Because, you know, we have to recognize our luck and privilege often, as is the case with this illness. You don’t pull yourself up by the. You need people that to step up for you and and so many people don’t have may not have that support in place. Or they may not feel that they’re the point, the recovery, where they feel comfortable sharing, because they might feel very, you know, they may face very real discrimination or stigma. But. But you know it’s it’s it’s it’s important to. We recognize that, you know, at the end of the day, this is still a condition that. Know people. Can and should be given the opportunity to recover from and. And and you know it’s it’s somewhat it’s unacceptable that you know. People are not often afforded the opportunities we’ve been.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Wow and. Love the. I love the. You both are on and it’s been an honor and privilege to have you on and to educate our listeners and it’s just, you know, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much and. Love to see the work you’re doing now. I’ll be. Be trailing you guys. Mind to. You know the wonderful work and anything I can do. Support you just let me know. And you’re always welcome back on the podcast. Know I just tap my shoulder so. Yes, thank you, Patrick.
****KODY GREEN****
Awesome. Thank you so much for having us.
****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW****
Have a great rest of your week, OK? Thank you. Hey, if you’re getting value from this content and you haven’t done so already, be sure to like and subscribe to the YouTube channel and podcast and be sure to subscribe to the MHT newsletter. That way you don’t miss out on any new content as it’s released links and. Description.
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Speaker 4
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