The 4 Relationship Attachment Styles: What Every Therapist Needs to Know

In this episode, mental health therapist Mary Sarkis LMFT, Glendora California, discusses the 4 relationship attachment styles that every therapist needs to know. Learn about secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment styles to improve your therapy practice.

⬇️ DOWNLOAD YOUR FREE ATTACHMENT STYLES THERAPY HANDOUT:

Attachment Styles Quick Guide

Checkout page for Attachment Styles Quick Guide.

The 4 Relationship Attachment Styles: What Every Therapist Needs to Know

⬇️ DOWNLOAD YOUR FREE ATTACHMENT STYLES THERAPY HANDOUT: https://mht.thrivecart.com/attachment-styles-quick-guide/ In this video, mental health therapist Mary Sarkis LMFT, Glendora California, discusses the 4 relationship attachment styles that every therapist needs to know. Learn about secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment styles to improve your therapy practice.

Key Takeaways:

• Demystifying Attachment Styles: Get a clear understanding of the 4 main attachment styles and their impact on client relationships.
• Actionable Strategies: Discover practical techniques for working with clients exhibiting different attachment patterns.
• Address Attachment Wounds: Learn how to help clients heal from early relational trauma.
• Expert Insights from Mary Sarkis: Benefit from years of experience applying attachment theory in clinical practice.

Learn how to:

• Identify attachment styles in your clients.
• Tailor your therapeutic approach for better results.
• Foster secure attachment and promote healing.

♦️ About Mary Sarkis:

-Therapy profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/mary-h-sarkis-glendora-ca/119492
To Schedule A Consult With Mary: Ph: (626) 470-3826
-Practice: 415 W Route 66; Suite 202; Glendora, CA 91740

📕 Resources: Books Mentioned

• How We Love: A Revolutionary Approach to Deeper Connections in Marriage: https://amzn.to/3RPdajC
• Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love (The Dr. Sue Johnson Collection): https://amzn.to/3RiNjAC

♦️ Resource: Attachment Style Quiz

• Attachment Style Quiz: https://howwelove.com/love-style-quiz/

In this episode of The Mental Health Toolbox, I had the privilege of speaking with Mary Sarkis, LMFT, a seasoned attachment therapist, to demystify attachment styles and explore their profound impact on our clients’ lives.

What is Attachment Theory (and Why Should Therapists Care)?

Mary Sarkis eloquently explains that attachment theory posits that our earliest relationships with primary caregivers have a lasting influence on our ability to form healthy bonds and regulate emotions throughout life. This primary relationship bond between a kid and their primary caregiver has the biggest impact on health and relationships. Understanding attachment dynamics allows us to see clients, both adults and children, through a lens that reveals the root causes of their struggles.

The Four Attachment Styles: A Quick Overview for Therapists

Mary breaks down the four main attachment styles, providing practical insights into how they manifest in our clients’ behaviors and relationships:

• Secure Attachment: Individuals with a secure attachment style are comfortable with both intimacy and independence. They trust that they are lovable and worthy, and they can handle criticism effectively (00:04:02).
  • Key Traits: Trusting, empathetic, good boundaries.
• Anxious-Preoccupied Attachment (the “Pleaser”): This style is characterized by a craving for closeness and a fear of rejection. Clients with this attachment style may constantly seek reassurance and validation from their partners (00:06:00).
  • Key Traits: Worried, clingy, needs constant validation.
• Dismissive-Avoidant Attachment (the “Avoider”): Individuals with a dismissive-avoidant attachment style value independence and suppress their emotions. They may struggle with intimacy and commitment (00:12:16).
  • Key Traits: Independent, emotionally distant, avoids vulnerability.
• Fearful-Avoidant Attachment (the “Vacillator”): Also known as disorganized attachment, this style combines elements of both anxious and avoidant attachment. Clients with this attachment style crave closeness but fear vulnerability, leading to inconsistent and often confusing behavior in relationships (00:15:34).
  • Key Traits: Rejection-sensitive, unpredictable, struggles with trust.

Putting on the Attachment Lens: Practical Tips for Therapists

Mary emphasizes the importance of “buying in” to the idea that attachment is a crucial lens for understanding our clients. Here are some practical tips for integrating attachment theory into your practice:

1. Assess Attachment Early: During initial assessments, actively look for patterns and themes related to your client’s early childhood attachments and current relationships (00:24:50).
2. The Therapeutic Relationship as a Model: Use the therapeutic relationship itself as a safe and secure base for your clients. Model validation, empathy, and consistent support (00:24:50).
3. Use Attachment Assessments: Incorporate attachment style assessments and quizzes into your sessions to help clients gain self-awareness and understand their relationship dynamics. Mary recommends the quiz on HowWeLove.com (00:28:27).

Mary shares insights on how specific attachment styles might present in common client scenarios:

• Couples Therapy: Identifying attachment styles can reveal underlying dynamics of fighting styles, making them fighting about the week, but understand what is not being met (00:29:04).
• Adolescents: Recognize that attachment issues can manifest as depression, anxiety, or behavioral problems.
• Trauma Recovery: Understand that early relational trauma can significantly impact attachment security.

Conclusion:

By understanding and applying attachment theory, therapists can gain a deeper understanding of their clients’ relationship patterns and provide more effective support. As Mary Sarkis so clearly articulated, an attachment lens is not just another theoretical framework; it’s a powerful tool for fostering healing, connection, and lasting change in our clients’ lives.

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*Some of the links found here are affiliate links: As an Associate I earn from qualifying purchases by way of commission at no additional cost to you. See full disclaimer here:

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This Episode Is Brought To You By:

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BIO: Mary Saris, LMFT

No matter how lost or stuck you feel at this moment, by the time you make THIS call, you are already on your way up and out of that pit. You have decided that what once worked isn’t working anymore, and you’ve reached out to get help. You chose the path of hope and healing. I am honored to walk with you on your journey to wholeness and wellness. I am here to provide you (or your spouse or teen) with the support and tools you need to overcome emotional, behavioral, or relationship difficulties and get your attachment needs met.

Although I work with a variety of issues, I am a relationship specialist. It is my calling to help hurting teens, parents, and couples. Whether your teen is depressed, anxious or acting out, my goal is to understand them, help you understand them and meet their needs, so they can thrive. I use a similar emotionally-focused approach with couples.

Mary H. Sarkis, Marriage & Family Therapist, Glendora, CA, 91740 | Psychology Today

Mary H. Sarkis, Marriage & Family Therapist, Glendora, CA, 91740, (626) 470-3826, No matter how lost or stuck you feel at this moment, by the time you make THIS call, you are already on your way up and out of that pit.

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Learn More About Mary Sarkis, LMFT and The 4 Relationship Attachment Styles

CONTACT AND SOCIALS:

-Website: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/mary-h-sarkis-glendora-ca/119492

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Watch The Interview

If you liked this episode, be sure to check out my full playlist of interviews here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnPL9gahfhWatKmy2YSyU0jt20h_jrj3H

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Listen To The Interview

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Want to learn more? Check out my top picks for books on self-improvement and recovery HERE!

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Mission Statement: To equip therapists with the tools, knowledge, and strategies they need to enhance their practice, boost their income, and ultimately, improve the lives of their clients. We achieve this through accessible, high-quality content, practical resources, and a supportive community.

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Transcript: The 4 Relationship Attachment Styles: What Every Therapist Needs to Know – With Mary Sarkis, LMFT

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Hey, you’re going to love this episode all about attachment theory and how we can use it to better serve our clients. But be sure to download your free attachment styles Guide I created just for you link and the description. 

Speaker 2 

Welcome to the mental Health Toolbox Podcast, where you will gain the knowledge to thrive. Here is your host, licensed psychotherapist Patrick Martin. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Hey, helpers, you asked. What is attachment theory and how can I use it to better serve my clients? Well, stick around because you’re in the right place here on the mental health toolbox. I’m your host, Patrick Martin, teaching you the art and business of therapy, and today is a very special episode because here in the beautiful hills of Glendora. The pride of the foothills as a. Today in our own backyard, we have our very first in Person podcast on the mental health toolbox. Our special guest today is Mary Sarkis, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist and attachment therapist specialist. So she’s going to be here to school us on the importance of understanding attachment theory to better serve. And understand our clients. So without further ado, Hello, Mary, how are you? Today. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I’m good. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Patrick. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

My pleasure. Thank you for allowing me to. Pick a first, go with the in in person podcasting and coming on short notice to your office and letting me. Have this chat with you. I appreciate it. So I usually ask my guests how you got into this space, right, as as therapists, we come from all kinds of different backgrounds and we all have our reasons for becoming therapists in the 1st place. Different passions. I’m particularly interested in how you got into attachment. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

You’re very well. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Therapy, right and working with, I’m guessing couples and and this kind of work. Do you want to share a little bit about your background and how you got into this space? 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I I mean, I remember being in school and then starting therapy. I think in school as a marriage and family therapist, I was really if I was schooled and I mean, we studied all theories, but if I was schooled in anything in particular, it was just working on improving relationships. So it was primarily actually Bowen family systems. If I was, if I, you know, really got more of any particular theory, it was that. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

But then later on when I got into the field and I’ve been here in this office for at least 20 years in this very. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Ohh, really. Wow, that’s a good stretch. 

Speaker 

Room. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

So worked with, you know, with kids, with adults, with couples, with adolescents. And I had a particular, you know, interest in in adolescence. And. If if people ask me what was your theoretical orientation, it was just, you know, any meaning any well, I mean, I don’t, I don’t know. They were all the same to me. I was. I would have described myself as eclectic. But then, you know, I went to the couples conference and and then learn more about EFT emotionally focused therapy. And that got me into, you know, attachments. And I’ve really just started to feel like. It really was a game changer, particularly in working with couples, but also in working with kids and and adolescents. Parents would bring a, you know, a child to me or an adolescent with any particular set of issues, but I always. Then just start to to see it through an attachment lens and started to realize that there was always a problem with attachment. It was always there was always an attachment problem. With the kid and their, you know, primary caregiver or both or step parents. But there was always something there and it really then didn’t really matter whether it manifested itself as depression or anxiety or, you know, conduct problems, behavioral problems. Refusal. There was just, it always went back to to attachment issues. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Excellent. So it’s not necessarily even that people come seeking attachment therapy as much as attachment theory is the lens by which you’re trying to understand and treat and help the client. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

100 percent 100% yes. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Wonderful. So since we’re on the subject, obviously of attachment theory, I know there’s different styles of attachment. Can you tell us a little bit about what the, the principles or different attachment styles are and why they’re important to understand in therapy? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I’ll start first by just a very simple explanation of attachment theory. As I understand it. Or just the school of of Attachments, and that’s basically it. Is the idea, in my own words, it is the idea that the primary relationship or attachment relationship bond between a kid and their primary caregiver. Has or is the biggest predictor of emotional health or lack of it, and healthy relationships or unhealthy relationships, emotional regulation versus dysregulation. UM. It is. It is just the biggest predictor of that all of all of those things. And so that is part of what makes it, you know, so, so incredibly important, that particular relationship from early childhood is going to determine whether that kid grows up to be, you know, healthy. Child teen adults has healthy relationships with. Significant others and even later on, what kind of a relationship and what kind of a parent they’re going to be with their own children. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

So across the lifespan, it has implications. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Absolutely, absolutely. So now we get into the attachment styles. And so the ideal attachment is for a kid to. Have a very healthy, nurturing, attentive, you know parent and a good, safe relationship with their parents. And so they grow up to feel like they can trust themselves, that their needs are important, that they are lovable, that they are worthy and. 

Speaker 2 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yeah, that their needs matter and that the world is a safe place. And so they grow up to have secure attachments or secure attachment style with. Friends, significant others and later on their kids, they’re able to handle criticism when it comes and they’re not devastated or crumble because they feel secure. They know they’re lovable, they know they’re worthy, they know they’re, you know, valuable and so. They’re able to express their needs. In in a healthy way, without maybe raging, or the opposite of that, which is just not expecting their their needs to be met. So then that gets us into the other attachment style. So the opposite of a secure attachment is insecure attachment and will be in the. John Bowlby and the initial attachment theorists, they broke them. They broke down the insecure attachment to and avoidance dismissive attachment. And anxious or preoccupied attachments and fearful, avoidant or disorganized attachment. Style so the anxious, preoccupied attachment is a person that may have had an inconsistent parent, and so the parent was sometimes loving sometimes mean, sometimes reactive, sometimes they’re sometimes not there, and so the kid grew up to feel. Like I want this I’m I’m craving this consistent. You know love that I didn’t get in childhood but at the same time they’re not sure that they’re lovable. They’re not sure they deserve it. They’re not sure the person will be will continue to be there for them or or will leave them and so they’re constantly seeking. Reassurance constantly, constantly, constantly seeking reassurance. So if I have a couple in here that is coming in, presenting with any kinds of problems, let’s say they’re arguing about money, kids, you know, work. One of them is preoccupied. One of the you. You know, I am looking for themes like, you know, the one you know if if there’s an an anxious attachment style in the room, they’re going to be constantly questioning. Do you love me? 

Speaker 

Mm-hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Are you there for me? Are you going to leave me? Are you going to be there for me when I need you? Sometimes it’s, you know, expressed and you know you’re not there for me and you know you don’t love me. I, but it basically is. I’m not feeling loved. I’m constantly seeking that, you know, reassurance. And it just plays out in every area of the marriage, including the bedroom. You know, with, with sex, the person who’s anxiously attached is always going to be maybe looking to please their partner for validation of their worth and being loved. 

Speaker 

MHM. MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

So. So that’s the anxious preoccupied attachments always, you know, do you love me? You there for me? You’re going to be there for me. Are you going to leave me? And and they can be idealistic because they because they are seeking, you know, are basically trying to compensate for the consistent love they didn’t get, you know, growing up. And so they’re looking for that. And so they can oftentimes be just dissatisfied with the amount of love or attention they’re getting. They’re always looking for more because they just didn’t get it, you know, growing up. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

And so that’s always comparing them to the ideal. And then I know the term reflected appraisals in psychology is when we assume we know what somebody else is thinking about us and it’s negative, right. And so other people become our mirror for our own self. Steam, right? So maybe the anxiously attached person is always assuming the worst, assuming that they’re not enough, assuming that they need to do more in order to not lose the other person, right? So it’s they can never really drop their guard. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

That’s right. That’s right. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

That sense. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

That’s right. And then we go to another type of an insecure attachment, and that is the avoidance attack. The person or the the kid that grew up to develop an avoidance or dismissive attachment style. Chances are they had a dismissive parent or an absent parent. It may have been a single parent that had to just work, you know all the time to make ends meet and so. They had. They didn’t have the one parent who was gone, and then the other parent who was physically there, the custodial parent was was preoccupied, was not emotionally available. And so the kid really had to depend on themselves. They grew up feeling like there’s no point in expressing my feelings or needs because nobody cares. You know, nobody’s really there or nobody cares. It’s me, myself and I in a home, for example, with preoccupied parents or busy parents or unavailable. Parents. That kid may have been an older child where they had to not only take care of them. Themselves, in the case of, for example, latchkey kid, or they also may have had to take care of their siblings. And so it was all about, you know, your worth is determined by performance. What you do and you just need to take care of yourself and kind of don’t bother anybody. So they grow up in relationships to feel like. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I don’t need anybody. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Very self-sufficient. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Right. So the partner of a person with an avoidance attachment is is likely to feel like I’m not needed. You don’t. Me, because the person really gives off the, you know, the impression that they don’t need anybody and they’re just independent to a fault. And they are. They’re not used. To. Their feelings or anybody else is being dealt with and so other peoples, the other person’s feelings. They’re overwhelming to them, you know? So when you have somebody, let’s say, who is anxiously attached and they’re seeking reassurance and they’re maybe even picking fights to, you know, to get their the attention or to protest this connection. 

Speaker 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

They the the avoidance partner is is going to distance themselves even more because they’re feeling they can’t handle negative emotions that come with criticism or the neediness of their partner, that those needs are very overwhelming to them. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Hmm, it’s funny. We just brought. That’s exactly what I was just thinking. So if you have one of each, you have the anxiously attached person and the avoiding the attached person. That’s kind of a really bad recipe for. Everyone being unhappy, right? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So. So not only. And that’s not only does it matter, just everyone discovering their own, you know, attachment style, because that affects how they relate to other people. But the combination of. You know what is each person’s attachment style in the marriage that creates a certain set of. You know. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

For sure I could see that. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yeah. And then to to make things more difficult than some people have a fearful avoidant attachment style, which is a combination of the anxious attachment and the avoidance, and basically that, that person. Is, you know, they crave closeness. They constantly want reassurance. They it’s not easy for them to feel. Loved. And so they kind of demand that demand puts the demand or puts the pressure on their partner to be constantly making them feel loved because they don’t feel lovable. So they’re craving closeness. They want to feel loved. But at the same time they are so vulnerable. That anytime their expectations are not met, they vacillate and they go to the other extreme of avoiding whether it’s avoiding by distancing, shutting down, withdraw. Playing cutting the other person off, or even just, you know, throwing big, huge fights, raging or whatever and pushing their partner away. So. So, yeah. Then just imagine an avoidance person being married to that. You know. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Absolutely. So in some. I kind of I kind of think about that as the person who is rejection sensitive. Who has that deep felt need right to be close and intimate, but doesn’t trust the situation so that they try and get ahead of it right? So they’ll avoid other people so they don’t get hurt. But what they really want. Us to be. Close, which is different than when you describe the anxiously attached person who then? Well. Take. We’ll be very proactive about getting attention, right, but that’s really interesting that I’ve never heard of explain that way like it’s a mixture, but that makes sense. Yeah, that makes absolute sense. Yeah. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yes, so. So again, based on the attachment styles in any. Couple you’re going to find them triggering each other in in a certain way. Unless you have the idea, which I don’t see too often in in the therapy room, the ideal being too securely attached, you know, partners. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Because if you had two securely attached partners, they probably would. Have very little conflict. I imagine in that sense they’re not to the point where they be coming to couples counseling so much. Not for those reasons. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

That’s right. They would either either not come or they would just come, but just be very, very secure in their relationship and say, you know, we just need a little help because it’s good. But it could be great, you know, so we want great, you know. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Right, right. They’re doers. They’re ready to get, get busy and improving the situation, right. So, less less preliminary work. 

Speaker 4 

Yeah. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yes, definitely not. Not the couple that’s going to be coming and fighting or raging, you know, in that therapy session that would, yeah, just what can I? 

Speaker 

MM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Do better. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Excellent. What I’m curious, what do you find most? Comment in your office like what kind of clients do you typically see showing up in terms of attachment style issues? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Are we talking about couples or beyond? 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Ohh, maybe both. Maybe just touch on both for a second. I’m curious, yeah. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

That. U. M. What type of clients do I see showing up? I mean, really, I I I see everybody and I take everybody, but exactly like you said, I see it all through an attachment lens. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I see it all through an attachment lens. So uhm, even if I am working with couples that are in like a fair recovery, you know we’re talking again about repairing that ruptured attachment. And you know one. How can I trust again too? Can you validate that? You know their their rage and that their sense of safety and the relationship has been, you know, yanked away from them. Yeah. But adolescence, I see it a lot, a lot. A lot. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Mm-hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

UM, you know, I’ll give you one example that comes to my mind right now. Was. A client of mine who’s a parent was remarried. So the dad she would often go to the dad, but the dad? Was. Probably avoidant. You know, kind of emotionally disengaged. But she lived with mom and she was constantly craving, you know, moms love. But Mom was remarried. And had another small child, a baby with with the new husband. So my client just felt like she’s kind of the odd man out in the home that they were all a family and that, you know, she would. She was kind of. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And the mom had had her at a younger age, but was, you know, had the other baby older. So she was a much better mom and was more nurturing and attentive. And and that can be very triggering for a kid who didn’t get that, who is seeing that their mom, for example, is capable of giving that. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Mm-hmm. Right. Much easier to accept if you’re like, oh, that’s just mom. I learned to accept it, but. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

To someone else that is yes. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Then you see something different. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yes, yes, yes. So umm, so I just kept saying, you know, let’s bring in the mom. Let’s bring in the mom and work with her, you know, to to help her understand the daughters attachment needs and hopefully to provide them. And you’ll see that when when the attachment is insecure. That the teen will be very scared to have their parents in here. It’s like they are not expecting their needs to be met. They may be expecting some kind of backlash for for expressing, you know, their needs. And what I saw in the. Room that day. Is after we, you know, expressed to the mom where I helped the teen express to the mom. Her daughters need for just some time and attention with her. And I asked, you know, the the daughter. The question I said, you know, would you like, you know, would you like? For, maybe for Mom to spend some some time, like for an outing with mom once a weekend. You know, on the weekend just, you know, couple of hours with mom. Or would you prefer mom to come into your room and check in on you every night? Maybe for 20 minutes? And so, the daughter said, yeah, maybe come into my room and check in, you know, with me every, you know, for 20 minutes every night. And the mom later responded with. You know, if you think that I’m going to, you know, give you 20 minutes, you know, every day, like, I don’t have time for that. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Ouch. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yes, yeah, yeah. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Just twist the knife. Why don’t you? Yeah. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Absolutely. So while while I that didn’t go well, you know that did not help you know, repair any, you know, attachments, bonds or attachment wounds. It really helped me to understand the kid and it helped me to understand, you know. What? She was needing and what she was suffering from, and she definitely had a disorganized, you know, attachment and would get into relationships that were very toxic with, you know, men, women, whatever, that were very toxic. And very abusive. But basically she was going to just take love wherever she could get it. You know, and they didn’t really believe that she. Was. You know, lovable or worth more. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Worthy of undivided attention, keeping a high price tag on ourself. I think, yeah, that’s tough. So it can start at a pretty young age, those attachment issues. When do you? When do you think? By what age do you feel like attachment challenges start to form? Do you think become a little more concrete? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I mean in the DSM and the ICD, you know we have reactive attachment disorders and so it’s true that that’s a pretty extreme disorder, pretty extreme manifestation of attachment gone wrong. But you see it for example with, you know, foster kids, you see it with kids. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

True, true. 

Speaker 

MHM. M. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Of you know, parents that were substance abusers that you know were, you know, really experienced, you know, abandonment. But you also see it, you know, in abusive homes or where the parents just didn’t care to develop that attachment. So you see the kid you’re at the mall and the kid from a young age just gravitating and talking to strangers. And you know, and all of that, it’s almost. Like they don’t know who’s mom and who’s not. They’re looking for mom. They’re looking for mom. And just anybody who will like, you know, give them attention so you can see it at a pretty young age. And oftentimes you see it with acting out behaviors. You see it with kids that are. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Just have a hard time with emotional regulation. Have a hard time with self soothing because they did not get that and find that you know. From from from Mom or from a primary caregiver that that comforted them. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

That makes absolute sense. How big is the question? You’re an expert in this area, but for a therapist who’s not an expert in attachment, what would you suggest in terms of helping? The therapist put on that lens. Like, how could we practice that end session? Like what would be good kind of starting points as we’re? Kind of getting our feet wet with attachment theory or intervention wise. What? What do you think of of a new therapist or even a seasoned therapist who hasn’t? Hasn’t really tried this hat on, like, what might they do? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I mean, it really starts with, you know, you have to really buy into the idea that attachment is the most important thing and to look for it when you’re doing, you know, the your initial assessments, your first meeting with the clients, because a lot of. Times it is not possible like with that client that I just talked about, the teen or adults clients whose parents have passed on, or they no longer have a relationship with them. It’s not always possible to repair those, you know, attachments, but sometimes you’re it, you know, as the therapist. So the therapist use of self. And creating that safe relationship and helping them to to trust and to feel held and nurtured and and and and safe and and to and so. Dead. UM, so sometimes it’s, you know. Yeah, it’s it’s about that therapist use of self and the therapeutic relationship. So that starts from the very, very beginning, but you you have to really buy into the fact that this is what the client needs. You know the most and it’s not like I don’t do other things. You know I I will draw from. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

You know, cognitive behavioral, if I have a depressed, you know client, I will be encouraging them to to walk, to socialize to, you know to to get out of bed, to be assertive. You know all those all those things. But it all is just by itself without that relationship, where they feel kind of unconditionally supported and that they have someone in their corner. It wouldn’t be the same. So so it starts with, you know, the beginning, the therapeutic, you know, relationship. It starts in the assessment for looking for what, what’s going on in their attachments. Early early childhood attachment. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

That makes sense. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And you know in their in their marriage with their kids, what’s going on because there might be, you might start to see certain themes for problems that are all kind of created by that. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Absolutely. So as therapists were, there’s the use of cell, we’re definitely using the therapy space as a way to model like validation. Empowerment, strength, space. We’re trying to model what an ideal relationship ought to look like, and we’re also using it as a space to teach those skills and and how to identify what they need within themselves and how to. Build build on their own relationships, right advocate for themselves. So that’s really good advice. That’s good. That’s a good start. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Yeah. Now if I’m working with couples, then I’m definitely going to be helping them each identify their attachment styles, and I have certain assessments or. 

Speaker 

Mm-hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Quizzes that I give that helps them to understand that, and that’s usually an eye opener for for both of them just about their own, you know self it almost just really helps them. It becomes a game changer and helping them expressing their feelings and needs to their partner. And now they’re now talking about. They’re keeping the main thing, the main thing, and instead of just fighting about whatever has happened during, you know, the week, they now understand, also through an attachment. And why? Why is it that they’re their? Their needs are not met in their relationship, and so it helps them to understand themselves, to express themselves in a different way to their partner. And it helps their partner to understand them and for them to understand their partner as well. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Excellent. Thank you. And where do you get those quizzes that you use? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Like so, I use a particular one. There is if you look, you know online, there will be a whole bunch of them. Including one by a prominent attachment, contemporary therapist Diane Heller Pool, I think is her name. So. So there’s all kinds of attachments, assessments, attachment style assessment. I use this, this book and this website. A lot and it’s a website calledhowwelove.com and there is a they call it the love style quiz, the love style quiz is is associated with this. 

Speaker 4 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And the reason I like to use this particular one, it calls the attachment styles by slightly different names. For example, the fearful avoidance it calls it vacillator, you know, and so I explained it to my, you know, most of my clients will take the quiz and they’ll be like I scored high on vacillator. What’s that, you know? 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And so a vacillator is basically someone that vacillates between wanting closeness and then pushing, you know, their partner away. It does call it the avoider, the vacillator, the person with an attachment. Sorry, with an anxious, preoccupied attachment, calls them the pleaser. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And so that’s the person that’s just always trying to spin their wheels trying to get the love that, you know, they don’t feel is there and is very just anxious and insecure about it. And and so that’s that’s pretty much you know the the four ones renamed a little different, but the nice thing about this is that whatever they score and once they’ve identified their attachment style and their partners, then they can look here and go read the book. And there will be information here for example about. The pleaser. There’ll be a chapter about the pleaser. There’ll be a chapter about the vacillator. There’ll be a chapter about the Avoider, and there will be a chapter about the vacillator Avoider connect relationship or the pleaser avoider relationship, or the avoider avoider relationship. And what that looks like. So it really just almost gives them a map and a blue. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Print for what’s going on. You know, in in their relationship. So this is the lifestyle quiz and it’s on a website, calledhowwelove.com. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

That’s fantastic. Excellent. I would definitely put that in the show notes. Appreciate that. Yeah, this has been really, really, really helpful for our audience. I’m sure you know attachment is one of those things. I think if you’re not really. Attuned to it as a therapist, sometimes it’s one of those. I’ll get to that sometime. Like I’ll learn about that. It sounds really interesting, but I’m a little intimidated, so hopefully this helped our audience feel a little less intimidated by using an attachment lens that better help our clients. If anyone is watching this, listening to this is interested in working with you. Whether they live in the Glendora area or somewhere in the, you know, San Gabriel Valley and they want to get in touch with you, the best place to find you know how to reach out is that through Psychology Today. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I am on Psychology Today and I’m just on Google. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

OK. OK, Google Mary Sarkis LMFT. More Psychology Today therapist Finder. I’ll make sure I put your profile on the show notes. Are you doing telehealth as well? 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

I am. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Yeah. OK, so if you’re anywhere in California, even if or if you’re a therapist and you are working with a client that you think needs more specialized help in the attachment space, you can always refer to Mary. Right, and that’s an option as well. Any last words of wisdom anything? Thing that you think would be helpful for our audience. 

Speaker 

Well, I’d like to. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

Highlight another book. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Yes, please. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And that’s hold me tight and that. That book has really. Changed some marriages and this is by none other than Doctor Sue Johnson, the founder of EFT emotionally focused therapy just. Modern couples version of attachment style or attachment theory. 

Speaker 

MHM. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

And this book is good because I will have the clients read it along. It’s not just for therapists, certainly beneficial for therapists. Both of those are, but also both of them are beneficial for, you know, the clients to do. And I’ve had, I’ve done therapy where I will go kind of chapter by chapter. And it has some exercises. Or the the clients or the couples to do together. And yeah, I’ve really seen couples. Get, you know, find some hope and be transformed through this. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

Fantastic. Well, it’s definitely gonna be on my reading list. Hopefully we have an audio book, so I’m a big audio fan. Very good. I love my audible. You know, I can mow the lawn and listen to a. Book what’s better than? That so, thank you so much, Mary. I appreciate you making time today and. And avail in your office space and using this as an opportunity to help more people out there who wouldn’t otherwise have access to this information. So yeah. Oh, my pleasure. So anytime you want to reach out, if you ever want to do this again, just let me know. OK. Thank you so much. You take care. 

****MARY SARKIS, LMFT**** 

You’re. Welcome. Thank you for what you do. Sounds good. Sounds good. 

****PATRICK MARTIN, LCSW**** 

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Speaker 2 

Thanks for listening to the mental Health Toolbox Podcast. Learn more at www.thementalhealthtoolbox.com.