Are you a therapist working with clients who struggle with clutter?
Than stick around, because in this episode of The Mental Health Toolbox, we are talking about how to declutter.
Clutter isn’t just about messy spaces—it can be a symptom of underlying mental health challenges like anxiety, depression, and decision fatigue. In this video, we dive deep into the connection between clutter and mental well-being with decluttering expert Holly Allison of Modest and Manageable Living.
In this episode: Learn how to:
· Understand the link between clutter, decision fatigue, and mental health.
· Use practical strategies to help clients declutter their homes and their minds.
· Support clients in overcoming emotional roadblocks to decluttering.
· Incorporate 5-minute decluttering techniques into your therapeutic practice.
· Create a holistic approach to client well-being that addresses the root causes of clutter.
Join us as we explore:
· The impact of decision fatigue on mental health
· How to empower clients to make meaningful decluttering choices
· The benefits of setting small, achievable goals
· The role of self-compassion and positive reinforcement in the decluttering process
*Some of the links found here are affiliate links: As an Associate I earn from qualifying purchases by way of commission at no additional cost to you. See full disclaimer here:
Table of Contents
This Episode Is Brought To You By:
Stream live to YouTube and all of your socials at once; Record your videos and podcasts; edit and post shorts and clips.
This tool is a Game-Changer for any content creator 🙌
TherapyNotes® is a complete practice management system with everything you need to manage patient records, schedule appointments, meet with patients remotely, create rich documentation, and bill insurance, right at your fingertips. Our streamlined software is accessible wherever and whenever you need it.
Hi, my name is Holly and I am 42 years old and I have lived a LOT of life in those 42 years. My channel focuses mainly on decluttering and weight loss as well as going deeper on the root issues by discussing my own personal thought and experiences as to how I accumulated so much clutter (and weight). I also talk about the biggest hangups and challenges when we try to declutter – or lose weight.
Are you drowning in clutter but also don’t feel like you want to be a minimalist either? What if there was a happy medium we could achieve together by working side by side and creating a modest and manageable lifestyle? Business email: itshollyallison@gmail.com
Learn More About How To Declutter, With Holly Allison
Are you a therapist working with clients who struggle with clutter?Clutter isn’t just about messy spaces-it can be a symptom of underlying mental health chal…
EP. 111 Clutter isn’t just about messy spaces-it can be a symptom of underlying mental health challenges like anxiety, depression, and decision fatigue. In this video, we dive deep into the connection between clutter and mental well-being with decluttering expert Holly Allison of Modest and Manageable Living.
Want to learn more? Check out my top picks for books on self-improvement and recoveryHERE!
It is my mission to equip you with valuable and effective coping skills and clinical interventions, to improve your mood, be more productive and improve your quality of life, so you can do more, and worry less.
NEED CRISIS HELP? If you need immediate crisis help with your depression, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or text “START” to 741-741
WHERE TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP: -NAMI Referral Helpline: 1-800-950-6264
-California’s Statewide Mental Health Helpline: 1-855-845-7415
ASK: If you have a question you’d like me to answer here on the blog (even if you think it’s a silly one!), please use the form on the CONTACT ME page, or the comment section below. I would be happy to take a poke at it and provide a long form answer when appropriate.
SHARE: Also, be sure to share it with a friend, as there is still a lot of work to be done in raising mental health awareness.
SUBSCRIBE to get your FREE MOOD TRACKING TOOL and quick Mental Health Hacks in addition to this newsletter. Sign-up with the form below.
TRANSCRIPT: How To Declutter | Mental Health and Decision Fatigue
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Hey, as therapists, we all know the importance of using space, of making sure that the environments we inhabit or surrender ourselves to reflect our values and mental health. And sometimes this is a difficult thing to translate to our clients, especially with clients who are struggling with anxiety and depression. We know that if we struggle with mental health challenges or chronic pain, fatigue is a factor. Low motivation is a factor, becoming easily overwhelmed is a factor. And so, despite the importance, it’s a challenge sometimes to figure out how we can get a stronghold, or a foothold, on our use of space as systems theorists and therapists. We know that the person and their environment are key factors. So how we engage clients in finding meaningful and actionable ways to take charge of their space in ways that are meaningful and valuable to them can be a definite challenge. And that’s why I’m excited to have our special guest on today, Holly Allison, who is an expert on decluttering. She’s had her own personal challenges with clutter and other personal hurdles, and she’s going to talk to us about how she’s managed to work through many of those hurdles and how we can do the same. So without further ado, let’s meet Holly. Hey, Holly, how are you?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Doing great, hi Patrick. Thanks for having me on. And so kind of you to call me an expert.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
It’s more than an idea, that’s for sure. You’re living it.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
So so yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, thanks for being on. You want to share a little bit about your background and how you came into this space of decluttering? It’s just worn in, aside for I think everyone to some extent. I don’t think we ever get…
Speaker
Sure.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Used to work, fully adept at managing space. I feel like it’s always a constant challenge of robbing Peter to pay Paul, so maybe you could share with us a little bit how you got into this space and why.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
For sure, so…like anyone else, and my mom’s going to be the first one to say that, like I’ve always been a cluttery person as a child. It just…chaos everywhere. And it wasn’t until late in 2020 that I moved from a one-bedroom apartment into a four-bedroom, two-bath house all by myself. And even though I thought I got rid of a lot of stuff, by the time the truck was unloaded, I went, “Where did all this stuff come from? And how are four bedrooms almost nearly full already?” And it was sickening. So of course, I’m relaying this to a friend on the phone, and we know our phones listen to us. And so YouTube starts pushing out the minimal mob, and I was like, “Huh? But is this like minimalism and decluttering?” And I guess like she’s right. Like, no one teaches us how to manage, like consumerism, or all the things that we think that we need to. Deep. So I went down that path. I went minimalist, and we can get into a little bit of this later. Uh, but I definitely fell off the wagon and now I’m back at it again.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
I think of decluttering a lot like weight loss. Yeah, kind of. How about anything for a while, but sustaining is hard. Why do you…why do you think it’s hard to sustain? Things, even if they’re important to us, even if they’re things that we know, if we stand atop of, we’re going to feel better about ourselves. Our space, like why is it so hard to stick with something like maintaining our space?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Though personally, I’ve felt like a lot of it stems from…it’s kind of a double-edged sword. Some of it is like you get to this point where you…you really enjoy where you’re at. And I have been in that space of, “Wow, I’m really fit and great!” And then you get a little bit complacent, like, “Oh, yeah, I can do that tomorrow or the next day.” And then some of these external factors in our lives start creeping up more and more because we’re letting some of that other stuff slide. And for me, if I was placing more value or having other external factors kind of…I don’t want to say push me down, but if I started feeling those feelings of like, “Oh, this is kind of crappy. Well, myself cares, I’m going to skip this today because you know my…that’s what my body and my…my needs.” And then it’s just a slippery slope from there, I feel like.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
That’s such a good point, and I think that’s just true with anything, fitness, any goals really that require fortitude. It’s, “Where do we give ourselves grace?” When does it become complacent, or yep, what’s self-compassion and what is avoidance or specific? How do we…how do we walk that rope?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Boy, I, you know, I’ve been struggling with this. I’ve often been an all-or-nothing person, whether it’s fitness, whether it’s, “I love my job, I hate my job.” I love having this thing nice, tidy, you know, nearly empty home to, “Oh, gosh, I don’t want to have to keep maintaining it.” Like, it’s really been a struggle, and I would say recently it’s been much more manageable to find this middle ground where you know it is just the balance and managing everything. So for me, what has been absolutely crucial is…I, and I’ve learned this from others in the decluttering space, is called the “5 minutes matters” rule. And at first I was like, “Does it really, though?” And I did this with my audience. I put a camera on it, and I was like, “I’m not going to see a difference. This is…” But let’s play along with this. And I did that one, and I compared footage, and I went, “Oh, my gosh, that’s all I really need to do is put in 5 minutes of effort for this kind of output!” Because our expectation of what we’re going to get done in that 5 minutes is so low, like the bar is down here. Like, yeah, I’m not going to get much done, but you have 5 minutes. So you’re trying to, like, get the most out of it. So even though you don’t think it’s going to meet here in the middle…so I think that’s really been a critical learning.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
That’s a really good point, because I feel like it’s easy to over…to underestimate what can be done in a short period. I’m an overestimate what we think is going to be easy, and I’ve definitely found this to be the case in different domains of life. School being one, and…and college. And I’ve always kind of been this way. But I’m the kind of guy who would rather stay up all night and get everything done in one painful swoop than kind of pick away at it.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And I know it’s important to be able to do both, but I don’t know if it’s the way I’m wired or other people are wired that way. But I’m like, you know, all or nothing. And I think that’s that’s a common hurdle and to…and this is true. There’s like especially if you’re planning your day, like…and these days I really like to plan my days as best I can, or the white spaces on the calendar, and kind of set an agenda. But…my…my house list keeps growing. It’s like blasting on the lip. And we’ve had these, you know, the bane of my existence has been our garage. And getting that thing organized. And one of the big hurdles is the bicycles, right? So we, you know, gone back and forth, we finally ordered some, like, rolling bike racks. And they’ve been sitting outside for probably weeks. And so I finally said, “OK, today’s the day.” “Yes, I’m going to unbox these, and then this is going to take me like 4 hours in my head,” right? Because I’m…I’m not a mechanical guy. I’m the one who has to put things together like three times and take it apart before I figure it out, right? Yeah, video or something. So also…and that was pleasantly surprised at how quickly they were put together. So what I thought was going to take 4 hours to…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Awesome.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Maybe 5 minutes…one…and on 15 minutes, I had the bikes up, and it was…and it’s already, you know, within one day, like, providing quality back to my life, because now I’m not like, stumbling over the bikes and the garage just to get to what I need to get to. I can just roll that out of the way, you know? And it’s…it’s so yeah, it’s to your point. Like, oftentimes we build things up in our head thinking they’re going to take longer rather than just trying and see, like, “Oh, like you spend 5 minutes on this and see how far I get.” You know, maybe I’m right. Maybe it’s too much to bite off, but…might be pleasantly surprised.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yeah, I think that’s often the case. And I actually have a video that just keeps kind of getting pushed on the back burner for editing and…and…I think what happens is because I had the thing in my mind, so I’m building this momentum, and things are going faster and faster and getting easier. And then I’m like, “OK, so then I’m going to do this video, and I’m going to show how easy it is.” And then I hit every roadblock. I didn’t have the right hardware, so then I’d have to stop. And then the next day, I’m going out. And like this would turn out to be like a three or four-day project. So when you start hitting all those hurdles, that’s the only time our brain remembers. We don’t remember the times where, you know, it was this simple thing that went together, you know, in 15, 20, 30 minutes. We remember this center. Like, “That’s such a production.” And I just, I don’t have it in me. So I thought that was really interesting to get that contrast.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
I know that way of everything though, right?
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And we tend to gravitate towards the difficult things, the things that give us resistance, the things we’re unhappy with, not the things that go well. Right, now we’re…now another wins the day, right?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
I would agree with that.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And…so…yeah, how do you…how do you…conquer those memories up? How do you…how do you remind yourself that, hey, not everything is always hard. Heard of that? Could…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
As I say, it’s actually kind of a difficult thing to…who…kind of retrain yourself, and this actually happened somewhat recently. So for those of you who don’t know, I’m…on my…lunch break. So I recently got my performance review, and by any…anybody else looking at this performance review would be like, “This is glowing!” And I look at this one thing and I’m like, “Really, like…?” And I’m…I’m stewing for…for the day. And, “Oh, man, I wish I would have thought to bring in this book. I think it’s called ‘Managing Your Emotions.'” And this is something I learned, especially when I quit drinking, is it’s okay to sit in that emotion, feel it, but don’t let it…I know it’s hard to say…don’t let it color your whole day. But like, give that feeling its due time, and go…you know what, “This feels crappy.” And then you’re like, “Alright, am I done feeling crappy now? I don’t want to feel crappy anymore. Let’s move on.” And so now I’m like, alright, it was a review, it happened. And that thing that was…I knew it was was likely to come up on…in my review. Like, “Oh, listen, one thing didn’t go so well.” So…just let it go.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, it’s kind of like that scene in…we can get better or we can get better.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Number shape, but it’s true, and…and…and the therapy world, we talk about things called harmful thinking habits that are often pervasive for anxiety. It might be catastrophizing, or what we…know as the…there we go. Right. But what you just described is negative filtering, as when we…we can only see the negative, when we blow it out of proportion. When we make mountains out of molehills, and instead of looking at the positive, right, where we framed like every…everybody especially at…must have…have 20 years under their belt, you know, to come…
Speaker
Okay.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Are going to have some, you know, critical feedback, if for no other reason, they can’t give everybody 100%, you know, 5. Exactly. It’s just it’s…it’s part of the…the politics, right, John? So I think how we bring things is very important, but being aware, having that self-awareness to know what’s going on, and be like, “Oh, wait, am I…am I tunneling? Am I…negative filtering? Like, what am I doing here that I feel this way?” “Let me take a step back and look at the situation objectively as best I can.” That’s a hard thing to do, right? And you know, yeah.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
And it’s especially hard sometimes. I feel like in the past…I mean…this is how I…you know, I was an ex-smoker. And actually, that I had quit years and years ago, and I think that was more of a product of my environment, sort of a thing. But drinking really crept up because I’m like, “Yeah, but for the most part, when I drink, I feel better.” But you’re not really feeling better, cause it…you just feel like garbage the next day, and then you’re still like, “There’s still, like…you’re still mulling over this thing because you didn’t give it its due time to sit with it.” And it’s really uncomfortable at first to start sitting in those negative emotions.
Speaker 3
But…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
It doesn’t define you as you go. “Okay, this feels like crap. What is this negative emotion telling me? Do I need to fix something? Is it just like, okay, I learned something and move on?” And like, “What can I actually do?” And if there’s nothing to do, well then just let it move on. Is…is this going to color what’s going on in five years from now, or can I let it…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Go? Yeah. Great point, Holly. And hang on, Princess asks if we can…I’m online a bit more. Absolutely. And congratulations on working on that shelf, hitting on Princess. That’s…that’s me. I…I’m the one that will mess things up before I get it right. And that’s okay, I know. But what’s a body for? And paint. So be okay. Yeah, so tunneling…I think of tunneling as just…when we…when we…get hyper-focused on any one thing and it has to do with reflective appraisals, right? Negative reflective appraisals, when we assume what other people are thinking about us, and that they’re judging us, and this is a very common thing, piety, it’s very common…
Speaker
No.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
With…people pleasers. It’s very common with…you look at the attachment styles, anxious-avoidant attachment styles, when…when you are very sensitive to other people’s opinions of you. And we have to be careful that we don’t make other people our absolute mirrors of our self-worth, because when we do that, we will become hyper-focused on small things, you know? It’s one thing to be self-critical to another to give your value…and its entirety to other people’s opinions. And so if by tunneling, I mean if we…if we don’t give ourselves a chance to digest something with perspective and objectivity, then like Holly said, we will allow it to take root, and…and…and take up space in our…our minds. That it’ll carry over to the next day, or it will distract us from other things that are important. And this is where that self-fulfilling prophecy really comes in. If we allow ourselves to get tripped up by one criticism, or even if it’s a self-criticism, “Oh, I should be doing this. I should be doing that.” We start shooting ourselves, or, “I can’t believe I did that. That’s all they’re going to think about me now.” Then what happens is we start…we can’t be present. We can’t be present with the other things we need to be focused on, whether that’s in the workplace, whether that’s as a parent, whether that’s other tasks that we’ve set aside for ourselves. And then what happens is we end up dropping the ball in those other things, which then only further impact our self-opinion, self-image, right? Negative self-talk. And so that’s why tunneling is so dangerous, is because…because it takes our head out of the game, and it takes us away from being present. And this is very akin to anxiety, right? A lot of what we talk about when we talk about hoarding or clutter, a lot of it has to do with, you know, an anxious mindset. And when you’re anxious, you have, you know, a foot in the…the future and a foot in the past because you’re future tripping, and you’re shaming yourself in the past, and you can’t really be present. So I hope that explains, such as a term thrown around, tunneling, is…is kind of, you know, tunnel vision on things that maybe we’re giving too much weight to. Something’s deserve that kind of attention if it’s urgent, it’s a crisis. If it’s important and urgent, right? They must even cover these, you know, matrix for prioritizing, but most things don’t require that level of…that kind of obsession, right? Normally, it’s just like, “Okay, noted. I’ll work on that. Turn my attention back to the other things.” But as soon as we allow it to take root, it’s going to zap us of our emotional or mental energy, and other things are going to suffer as a result. That makes sense?
Speaker
Okay.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Interesting that you bring that up, and I’m actually curious to hear what you would have to say about this because…I don’t think…this is an…an uncommon phenomenon, where you lay down in bed, and then you remember something from, I don’t know, high school, middle school, like…I can’t believe I did or said that, and we’re just ruminating over something that the other person, who’s no longer in our life, number one, and also probably has long forgotten it. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on why, as a human species, we tend to, like, oh, man, like geez, “I can’t believe I did that!”
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, because we care. And I think this goes more…variable mentality in our DNA. You know, we want to be shaped by the tribe, and if we’re…if we don’t feel like we’re accepted by the tribe, then we’re at risk, you know? People’s opinions literally mattered for survival at one point. And…and not to get too cliched with the whole tribal thing, but I think that’s true. And we all have different levels of acceptance within our, you know, inner circles, outer circles in society as a whole, but also because of how we…we appraise ourselves. We appraise ourselves often by other people’s opinions of us. And so this is why it’s so important to be able to laugh at ourselves, right? Not take ourselves so seriously, and this is especially true when looking at things like social anxiety. And you know, if we want to go deeper with that, a lot of it goes down to our core beliefs about ourselves, which are formed by our early childhood experiences, oftentimes by our caregivers and how they spoke to us. Even though we might be adults, we oftentimes have to reparent ourselves and how we speak to ourselves. And so…you know, we’re going to get really, you know, into the therapy side of things. That’s what, you know, therapy and counseling really works on. It’s understanding that…first of all, what a thought is, a thought is not a fact. A thought is either a statement or a question to ourselves, a statement or a question. And that facts are not feelings. So that also means we have to understand the difference between thoughts and feelings, and talk about them differently. And because once we get a handle on that, then we’ll be able to better address the self-talk. That makes sense. Meaning that not every…not every thought is valid. Not every thought gets a green light in terms of an absolute truth. That’s interesting. The labeling is important. But when I say self-talk, like Klingon, Princess just talked about, you know, making a mistake at this game…at a family dinner, and all morning, “Figure, everyone thinks I’m an idiot.” Right? This has to do with the amount of importance you’re giving to the activity. Right. And this is true in any unfamiliar environment. We’re going to be hypersensitive to how we’re being perceived, because we feel like we have to prove ourselves in some way. So this family dinner, could have…no family seen in a while, could have been around people that maybe you felt a little more of the microscope with, and so you’re already on edge, right? So just food for thought, you know, trying to try not to make something more than what it is. You know, “Ohh man, I haven’t played this game in so long. I…I always make a mistake when I play. Man, I…yeah, you know, I’m going to…I’m going to learn from you all.” And so finding ways to lighten up the conversation or even out yourself if you have…if you have a worry…and this is a way you can test if you have a negative thought or assumption rather than leave it up to assumption, and assume the worst. You can either assume the best, or you can test.
Speaker
But…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Right, and testing would be saying something or doing something to test the kind of feedback you get to see if your opinions are valid. Are your assumptions…and one way to light of something is if other people laugh or make light of it too. If…if they don’t, or they’re they criticize you, then you have your answer, but it’s rarely…rarely the case that people actually judging you. You think you’re right, right?
Speaker
Click the…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yeah, I…I feel like there’s a family member that…you know, somewhat recently, they’re, you know, is conveying something, and…so then I got the… “Ohh, well, why did you go with this?” And then? And then I said, “Well, you know, when you get your own, you can do whatever you want, and you know…call…” You know, it was like…so I really kind of diffused the situation a little bit, so because again I would have normally taken that very like… “Jeez, can’t they do anything right?” And I still kind of was feeling that way in the moment. But, you know, like… “Jeez, I’m never going to be able to do anything right in the eyes of this person.” But, you know, by kind of…I don’t want to say deflecting or reflecting, but a little bit like in a joking manner, like, “Oh, hey, well, you know, when you do it, you can do whatever you want then however you want.”
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
So about half indoors sometimes, like we would talk to a child. Ideally, maybe not…we were talking to his children, but as you would talk to your own child, or your own best friend with compassion, right, and understanding. And…and it’s important that we’re talking about this, because I’m…I’m assuming this is a…a major factor in what gets in the way…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Of managing our space, is that right?
Speaker
No.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Absolutely, because you know…it…we don’t go down that immediate spiral. But…these little things, you know, that build up over time, especially with people who…have shaped us from a family from when we were very young till…you know, into adulthood. And I still very stingily distinctly remember, I was on the treadmill one day, this was, you know, probably at my fittest, and I, you know, really trying to make that effort and I, you know, treadmill thinking is like my best thinking, and so I should do more of that, but…I had this revelation in my mind, of like, “I never felt like I deserved being in this place.” And you know, and that’s reflected in my home too, but like, even recently, where I’m like, “Oh, you know the people around me feel like I don’t deserve these things.” And eventually, it starts to color how we actually manage our homes, or don’t manage our homes, for that matter. And…that’s probably the one thing that is the hardest, it’s thought and emotions, or reprogram, is that feeling of deserving? And I still struggle with it now, but it’s like, alright, “I can just do what I can do, and again, if I put a timer on for 5 minutes, set a reminder on my phone.” Maybe you know, do I always do a 5-minute task every day? No, but it reminds me more often than not, then going down to Netflix spiral, or go, “Oh, yeah, there’s a commercial break, I’m getting kind of sick of the show anyway.” Let me go ahead and…and do something for 5 minutes. It just takes a little bit of some of that pressure off, too, so…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a term for that. I just can’t remember if you guys remember the term for that. It’s…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Something…principle, search the Pi, think, but I want to slobber…so hey, thanks, Susan, glad you’re here. Yeah, joining us. Yeah, there’s…there’s a term for that about setting timers for specific tasks and whether we get that task…quote, completed or not, we just said…and then that’s it. That’s how much time we allocate to it, right, which is a little bit different than Parkinson’s Law. Parkinson’s Law states that…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
England…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
A task takes as much time as we give it. Like if we give ourselves a week to do something, that would probably take two days, it’ll take a week. Yep. And so it’s just how our brains function. And so the whole idea of…but if we get overwhelmed easily, or we…we sometimes struggle with squirrel brain and we…we have trouble staying on task for one thing, with that, and then everything else comes up, falls by the wayside. Meaning, like, to avoid…I think you had termed it decision fatigue. That’s maybe one thing climbers can do so that we don’t neglect other things that need attending to. And this…
Speaker
It’s good.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Is…a strategy I really like because just because you move on from one subject to another doesn’t mean that you don’t get to circle back if you have time. Yep, right? If you have a sink full of dishes, 10 loads of laundry to do, a car to clean out, kids to pick up…and I don’t know…a lawn to mow, right? You probably can’t do all of those in the same 2-hour period, but you might…you might be able to touch and go, right?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, I know this is probably dependent on anyone’s given financial situation, but I’ve gotten to the point where I’m like, “Man, if the kid, too, house is down, wants to make a couple bucks off of mowing the lawn, and that gives me back 45 minutes of the day, I’ve just gotten to that point.” And it doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy mowing the lawn. It’s fun to just ride around when there’s no…there’s no traffic on my lawn, so I just get to ride around and…looking to enjoy peace, but like lately I’m like, “You know what, it’s one thing I can take off my plate. That’s an easy thing to outsource.” So, yes. Yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
We’re working…I think that’s…that’s huge, and that’s even deeper discussion is knowing ourselves well enough to know when are we at…
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
The best…began, you know, what tasks do we ideally want to accomplish? And then what are we okay with rolling over? And one can be outdoors, right? Yep, I don’t mind mowing the lawn, but sometimes it’s nice to outsource that.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Right, or go…jeez, have the last…yeah, or…oh, geez, the last day without rain. I have plans…ohh…alright, here’s, you know, $20-30. Go ahead and have at it. Yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
He arrives, coming…yeah, so yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s a…we read self-help books, there’s a term for that. It’s…
Speaker
The…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Called “eat the frog.” Let’s do the hardest thing first. Funny term. I think it’s supposed to be funny. I think in other books like “Entree Leadership” by Dave Ramsey and stuff, they call it…right, but…
Speaker 4
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
You’re prioritizing that the harder things first, theoretically, because you’ll have more bandwidth…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Hey…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
We’re now working with clients with anxiety, like specifically depression. So you know, you never know how much gas you’re going to have in your tank when you wake up. Right. So the day starts the night before. So have some ideas about how you…want your day to go, right? Write them down. But then you want to ask yourself, “What do I need to shift based on how I feel?” Right, maybe get out of bed…
Speaker
Didn’t…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
That’s for coffee, but give yourself a raise to shift things and allow things to lower. Right.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yeah, that’s really interesting because “eat the frog” is kind of a popular thing in the decluttering space. And, you know, it’s funny because I was still the person, and I…I still kind of am, that like, “Okay…”
Speaker
You just…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
For example, let’s just pretend it’s April, and I have to do my taxes, and I’m like, “Man, I should do that first. But boy, I…I will get absolutely nothing done, and still not do it because I just…I got to find my W2, and I got to find this paperwork, and I got to find that.” And again, I know like it’s building this up in my mind of this is going to be way worse than what it’s actually going to be, but also from Dave Ramsey was you know, he’s…if you look at his other books, like…the “Money Makeover,” I think, is the one that I have, and there’s a couple other ones where he…the smoke…yeah, the…he does the snowball effect. So what’s my little win to give me a little bit of a boost of confidence and keep riding that wave in that trajectory? And I…I think that’s been probably another really powerful thing for, like, doing 5-minute chunks of either decluttering or housework is, “Okay, the timer goes off and you’re done, but I’m still kind of like low-key scanning for things.” Or it becomes easier to go, “Oh, here’s a piece of something that goes in the trash. I’m just going to grab that on my way to the trash bag.” Like it…it’s really a little…in my mind’s been key to continuing that momentum and coming up with more things, even if you only intended to do 5 minutes, or you felt like that 5 minutes was a struggle.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Oh, absolutely. And I think…I think…I’m Princess just echoed that. She said that definitely sometimes, you know, there’s…there’s a time to eat the frog, right? And there’s a time for the small wins. Like you said, the snowball. And I think it’s important that we don’t get too hung up on absolutes. Yeah, you know, we all need small wins. You know, we need small wins to stay motivated, and this is…this is if you ever read James Clear’s book, Atomic Habits. Love that book. Like, yeah, my favorite…one of the bestsellers, but he talks about something called habit stacking. And I think this has to do more with inertia, right? A body at rest tends to stay at rest, and one of the easiest things to do is talk ourselves out of doing what we…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…really want to be doing, you know. And if you look at, you know, the Stoics and Stoicism, they talk about the value of a virtuous life, and really, that just has to do with when we live in alignment with the things that are important to us. And we do what we tell ourselves that we’re going to do…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…we tend to feel better and happier about our lives. So then it becomes this balance of not over-committing to ourselves but also not talking ourselves out of the doable things that really aren’t as hard as we make them in our head. Once we start trying to negotiate…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Absolutely. Ah, man, and that’s the other thing too. That was really interesting. So keeping that in the same vein of, we were talking earlier about…you know, a task is going to take as much time as you give it. And there was a spare room in particular that became quite a series of, “I’m just going to do 5 minutes at a time, see how this stacks up.” And in the past, and I’ve spoken about this a few times in the past, I would have said, “I need to set aside a whole week, and it’s going to take all day, and it’s going to take all day because we give it that time.” And it’s also going to take all day because of some of that decision fatigue and then you know…making mistakes, or, “Wait, do I need this?” “Does this go in the maybe box?” And you know, getting all out of sorts. But when I put that little 5-minute chunk of time on it, it ended up being, I think, 37 minutes total is what it took to completely clear out that room. And I’m like, “Wow!” But there is…if I would have said, “I’m going to put 35 minutes on the timer.” I would have gotten nowhere near as much done. I…I don’t…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And that…agree. And I think too. So when we get moving on to something, we stick with it like you said, like it’s like if I can commit to 5 minutes of…
Speaker 3
Ohh…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…whether that’s exercise, or eating, or writing a school report, whatever it is as a therapist is doing therapy notes.
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Once you get started, it’s like, “Okay, it’s not so bad.” Um, but I think once we get into that mindset and into that mode, we’re more likely to stick with it for a while. But this also speaks to something else that I found really important, and I don’t think we talked enough about, and that is improving the moment.
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
A lot of us do this subconsciously, right? Well, we’re just habitually…we’ll turn on music…or doing the dishes, or something. This is also, I think, important to use forethought. It’s like, “Oh, I…I committed to doing this thing, or I have to do this thing. How can I make this thing more enjoyable?” Can I bookend it with other enjoyable activities? And I do anything while I’m doing that that I find more enjoyable. For me, it’s listening to podcasts. If I’m gardening, I’m mowing the lawn. You know, if not with family, if I’m…if I’m doing solo, then I’m, you know, doing…I’m either…
Speaker
These…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…listening to something I enjoy, or I’m educating myself with something, you know, audiobook or something, for me, that makes the time fly by because it’s not like I’m just gardening. I’m also reading a book. Right, right? And like you said, when I’m doing those things, I’m actually in more of an alpha state. I make it more enjoyable, so then I actually…that brings on other ideas, which doesn’t lend itself to more sense of motivation if you were…
Speaker
Still…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Interesting. And I mean, it’s something I do inherently often is…uh, I’m going to do the dishes, or, you know, get set for the week. And obviously, I can’t really sit in front of the TV and effectively do those things, so I just throw on one of the music streaming services. But the other thing I started doing is if I start finding myself getting a little hyper-fixated on say, a crochet or knitting project, or something, that’s a little bit more of a hobby, and also a way that we can use as avoidance sometimes. I’ve started negotiating with myself. I’m like, “Okay, if I just do some dishes, then I can go sit down for, you know, an hour or something.” So that’s something I’ve found helpful as well, so yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, rewarding ourselves within reason. Absolutely, very good. So when it comes to specific tactics, what have you found to be…or what advice would you give to someone who’s feeling overwhelmed? Maybe it’s not just one thing, maybe it’s…they just feel overwhelmed because…all of their spaces like…there’s just…they don’t know where to start. Like, how do you know where to start when it comes to working on decluttering?
[HOLLY ALLISON]
How do you start? Wow. And this…I was borrowing from a lot of my audience, has heard of Dana K. White? She has a book called Decluttering at the Speed of Life, not Light. And her first layer of decluttering is start with stuff that’s just obviously trash. Well, that’s pretty low investment, like, “Oh, there’s a wrapper here.” “Oh, this is all…170, I might as well just throw it away.” The next step is going to be what she calls “duck clutter,” where it’s like, “Oh, why was I hanging onto this broken thing?” Let me get rid of it, or it…that belongs in another…you’re right…duh…this belongs in another room. Let me go take it there now. I don’t know why I set this down in here. So…and it’s kind of going down…starting from the easiest things and then going all the way down to the sentimental things is usually the last thing, and I’ve noticed that’s also pretty consistent with like Marie Kondo, her method of decluttering is sentimental items or less, because you have to kind of build that decluttering muscle, or a new lens. And I even found this out myself when…I first went through my decluttering back in 2020, early 2021. By the time I’d completed it at that point, and that’s another interesting thing, because we don’t need to complete things, and that’s where we get complacent. But…so I got to this point where I’m doing sentimental stuff, and I’m going through these school things that you think you’re supposed to keep. “I need to keep this awards program. I need to keep…” And it’s taking up space and bandwidth. And I remember by the time they came across it…you know, I’m 42 years old, which means I’ve been keeping this stuff for 24 years. I’m…normally I would have been like, “Oh, I need to keep this.” But when I picked it up, I didn’t remember fondly the two awards that I had gotten. What I remembered was the one award that I really thought I was going to get, and being really upset that I didn’t get it. And I went, “Well, then I don’t need a reminder of this in my home.” And it went in the trash. So I…I think that really helped by saving some of those things for last, like, “Was this really a positive thing that I want to remind myself of?” Not necessarily. So…
Speaker
Well…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
That’s a…that’s an important perspective. I haven’t really heard that put that way before, but things, even positive things, can be a…
Speaker
Then…then…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…trigger that we hold on to, right? Yeah, and also what…what value they add, and can we hang on to it because it’s a memory, but…it’s…that having a cleaner decluttered space would provide more quality. I don’t think we said that, too.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Right, or is…is this the thing that I’m going to look at when I want to remember this time period in my life? Not necessarily. I can just have that memory when I want it. So I still think there’s a time and a place for sentimental things, obviously. But it really helps you to decide what’s really important. And…I’ve heard this said a few different ways, but what are the things that…I’m going to knock on some wood right there. Going to be, God forbid, you know, if there is a, you know, a flood…so for those who might have a basement…so if something got ruined in water, what were the…what would be the things that you’d be upset by that you feel yourself worthy now? Now, do you need the things on the bottom that might have gotten ruined, or, you know, unfortunately, about a month or two ago, we had a fire in the neighborhood, lost everything, and you know…like it’s like, “What were the…what are the things at the end of the day that you would actually be upset at and wish that you would have been able to grab out in one of those situations?” So yeah, now obviously they’re…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Like a girl’s bag…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
You can’t get everything in there, but yep, yep.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…in the apocalypse, or zombie apocalypse, you…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yep. Good.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…know it’s…it’s cool. And sure, and that big fan too, of me, and we live in a digital age. And if it doesn’t have to be a, you know, a tactical thing, we can…we can scan it into some place where we can have quick access to it later.
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
You…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
That’s actually interesting that you brought this up, because I was looking back at some comments, and one of the questions or challenges that was brought up is…that this person felt like they were micromanaging the process and wanting…wanting to document everything that they were getting rid of, decluttering, donating, whatever the case is. And they were letting that get in the way of actually getting things out of the house. I’d be curious to hear what your thoughts are on letting that… “I need to micromanage this and have this be the most perfect way to let go of things.”
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
I think it really…again, I think it depends on, like, some people are more…attached to physically…people are better with…something like a reflection of it. Like, going for the most part, “Okay, with the reflection of things.” But some people who really…want that tangible…original…thing, I think you don’t even have to be your…like, doesn’t have to stay in your garage, doesn’t have to…
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…stay in your closet. I say if some…if some things are that worthy of holding on to…maybe if it’s within your budget, it might be for your own mental health to get a small storage…
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…and somewhere where you can put things that are most meaningful versus the things you can let go of. I don’t know, it’s just a thought. I haven’t done that myself yet, right? Right, yeah. I have a hard time with the idea of paying for extra storage, but at what cost, right? You know, if the clutter is costing you on your day-to-day sanity, but you’re not yet ready to, like, gold somethings, maybe it’s time to…
Speaker
The…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…no, never location. Maybe eventually, the financial cost will be enough motivation for you to start letting…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Fair, fair. And that’s actually interesting that you bring that up, because my audience knows that I have…I don’t want to say railed against minimalism, but I’ve started like…and because I feel like a lot of my friends now are in YouTube are saying, “Oh, gosh, I tried minimalism too, and I failed.” And geez, “What was wrong with me?” And I’m like, “It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. You don’t have to get down to a single bowl and a spoon and three pieces of clothing in our closet.” It’s like, know yourself and what you’re comfortable with keeping. But then it’s almost like okay, but then trying to find the balance of like, “Okay, but what if I have this storage space?” Is that going to compel me to hoard some more, or is it just giving me breathing room in my space? So I think it really is a personal choice in that manner.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Absolutely, and I think…of…rather than minimalism, I think…functional…hmm, is Myspace functional? In terms of also what speaks to you as a person, because for someone to feel like they’re in their…their zone…some…some things have an intrinsic value to them that help them cultivate a mental…state or identity that makes the space more functional for them, right? And so if you’re a very eccentric person, you might have certain things…I don’t know, I think I was at Johnny Depp’s house, and I saw something…I saw it kind of looked very busy, but you could tell it was very…it was very much his personality…
Speaker
Smoothly. Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…right? In terms of everything…everything around him has had some significant meaning, but also spoke to his…his mental creative space.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
And then…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…I think that I was very intentional.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
I’ve used this term as it relates to my bookcase, in particular, because I decided I didn’t want it to be stuffed end-to-end with books, and then I would start putting books this way, and I was like, “Why am I doing this?” And I was like, “You know what, my bookcase, I’m curating.” And so that was the word I was using for myself. I am curating what is the collection that I want to have on display…play in my bookcase, whether it’s books and a combination of a few decorative items, or is it all books. And I really paired it down to probably a shelf and a half, but now I have it spread out, and then I have a few decorative items that I felt like I wanted to put on display. And I think that was really like, “Okay, what’s display-worthy in my mind?” And I think that’s probably…you know, probably how Johnny Depp feels, is like, “No, these are…things that he feels speaks to him and that he wants to display that reflects him.” Or I think what’s the word…artifacts that he would want to put on…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…display. So hold on, it’s very nuanced, right? Yeah, decluttering. It’s not just about…clean your space. It’s not just about being a minimalist. It’s…it’s about your personality. What speaks to you, your values, and then what’s reasonable, and then what’s doable. Cleaner…no certain amount of time. And so this is…this is the same…same reason that finance is difficult, because it’s called personal finance. It’s not just the math. Everybody can figure out the math. Yeah, it’s all of the surrounding values that go behind the math, right? You know, “You drink and be merry for tomorrow we’re dead” or if…it’s, you know…for the future, you know, so it’s…it’s…it’s nuanced, just like fitness, right?
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, yeah, hey, but you know, there’s different…there’s different…psychological aspects and personal…aspects and values that go behind the behavior that we do, and the choices we make, and this is…I think…with anything we’re not just talking about…a linear decision to declutter. We’re talking about competing goals. Really, competing goals mean we all have 24 hours in a day.
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
We all have commitments. We all have different responsibilities. We all have different interests.
Speaker
Yep.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And all of those things compete with each other. And so this idea of, you know, thinking about something like finance, or fitness, or decluttering as a single kind of vertical…we don’t live in a single vertical. We have to…we have to choose and where we invest our time, and what…think about what kind of return we’re going to get on that investment, right? Usually, can’t just slam on the brakes completely on another vertical, right? We have to kind of just…kind of wind it down a little bit if we have time to invest somewhere else. And so, so I think projecting really helps…about your calendar and…and being realistic about what do we have time for? When is our…when are we going to have some downtime? And then what’s reasonable? Do we have…like you said…5 minutes a day that we can spare to one thing? Are we…you know, where do we have an hour later…you know, and thinking ahead and…and protecting that time? Great. I think it’s easier ahead of time, but when the day comes, right, there’s something else that’s…that’s demanding our attention. Competing…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yep, I would agree with that. It’s the intentionality. And I’ve often said, “I’m very…very…for the most part, protective of my Sundays.” Now obviously there’s times where…I don’t want to say it changes. I’m still protective of my Sundays, but there’s going to be times where it’s Father’s Day or Mother’s Day, and so I know that’s my compromise. I’m still going to spend time with my parents, and…okay, I’m going to let go of what I can’t get done this weekend. So you know, we had Father’s Day, and I had a couple of other commitments, graduation parties. So yesterday, I got a text…hey, I was like, “Oh, sorry, nope. I had to cut it off. It’s tempting, as it was, I said, ‘Nope, I have too much I want to get done.'” And some of that, you know, getting done is…there was some built-in relaxation, but sure, yeah, I would agree, it’s the intentionality and protecting, knowing when to set up those boundaries.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Yeah, boundaries were secure, right? To rest, all those things are important, and that’s why I think it’s an…it’s important to…
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Keep…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…keep…since then, realism and realistic with our expectations so that we don’t…set ourselves up for self-shame, doubt, criticism, and that we…don’t…
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…burn out, right? You know, if you try…great…you try and go…you know from zero to 100, and sustain that long term, you know…something’s always going…if you’re not giving yourself rest, if you’re not diversifying your lifestyle, if…if you get too hyper-focused on one thing, and that’s…that’s…that can be effective in the short term, we can all walk over coals for a short time…
Speaker 4
Yeah.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…if it…if we have a big enough…why? Right, right. But to live…intensely, all the time…that’s…that’s a recipe for burnout, for sure.
Speaker
You see…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…gold plating, yes.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Yeah, how old…man?
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And building our tolerance…you know, that’s a different topic…and habituation and…and how we can build smaller habits over time to become…they become…they require less energy from us to…stain to improve upon, right? Anytime we’re learning a new skill, uh…adapting to a new environment or building a new habit, there’s always…
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…uh, you know, we’re…we’re building our tolerance to that thing and our awareness and knowing what to expect, and how…how you know, it becomes less work overtime. So we can commit more to it as we move on, right? All good.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
That’s absolutely, yeah. So that’s interesting. So we were touching on self-care a little bit, and you know, we think of these classic things, like bubble baths, and go to get her nails done, or, I don’t know, there’s so many different ways we can talk about self-care, and we have this conversation offline, is…you know, we often overlook self-care in the places of maintaining our home or decluttering, or we do it as a one-time event and then we get complacent, and we think, “Well, we’re done. Well, you’re never really done.” And I’ve learned that decluttering has been far more powerful as self-care, especially when I’ve been in these low moments and feeling like, “Ohh, I got a little bit done, that…that’s been far more effective.” And far more empowering and long-lasting than, “I’m going to sit 20 minutes in the bubble bath, and I’m going to get out, and I’m still going to feel guilty that I did nothing.” And so they can’t…they don’t need to be mutually exclusive. You can do both things, but by making sure that we’re taking care of ourselves because often we go… “Ohh, well, it’ll be there later, or I’ll get to it, or who’s going to see it?” And so when we do have company, then we’re scrambling and we’re getting our place together for someone else. But we don’t do that for ourselves. So I’ve…I’ve even caught myself doing that the other day. I was like, “Okay, well, my…my dad wants this mini-fridge for a small pair.” So I’m, like, going nuts, cleaning it out, and I’m…like, “Wow, this looks…this looks really nice.” And I’m…like… “I don’t even do this stuff for my…” If I just took the time to maintain these things for my own self, you know how much more valuable is that? And not to say there’s, you know, not value in doing stuff for others, but…you know…that’s really interesting.
Speaker
Right.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Like saying, you know, if we’re not…fill in our cup first…we won’t be able to show up as our best selves for others and show up for other people.
Speaker
Let me…that’s it.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
But then we’re…if we’re always giving ourselves our last fruits, we’re going to be far less happy, and we’re going to be far less effective. And helping others…we want to serve others from a surplus of energy, right? It’s kind of like the golden goose, you know? And then you’re…just familiar…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
It’s been a while since I’ve heard the…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Golden years, right? The golden goose lays the golden eggs, right? And so, you kill the golden goose, you have no more golden eggs.
Speaker
Maybe…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And so the idea is that you…if you’re always keeping your cup full, just, you know, within reason, in terms of satisfaction, self-care, compassion, that even if it’s work, even if it’s…chore-like things, decluttering, and maybe not such fun things. If it still serves our overall well-being…
Speaker
Moving…
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…that serves to fill our cup right…of self-care…as long as our cup is full, we can serve more people. We can show up better for other people. We can give our best and more…you know, to others, which will have a far more lasting impact than if we burn out and become real…full. You know, our cup is always empty, right? And then… “Well, they never do that for me.” You know, “Half from nobody else.” But you know, and eventually, we bring…you know, bitter…right…right…so right, we’re just exhausted. And so it’s…it’s…sometimes a sensitive thing. And selfishness…self-care is not selfish. And while it’s self-care to be self…we have to be selfish to something. Ultimately, we will anyway, because we have needs that must be met. We all have to, at the end of the day, at some point, half the purses first. And either…either it’s going to become out of necessity because of right now, or things are getting done, and we start declining invitations to do other things and social events, and we start showing up late to things, because we’re so overwhelmed with the things that have piled up for ourselves that we no longer have the capacity to say yes to other people, even logistically. Yep. Or we knew each person in the first place, and then…then…then we…we have a lot more bandwidth to say yes to other…other things because, you know, our home being maintained…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Every tree with that, absolutely. I feel like that was really reflected in March of 2020 when everyone says, “Oh, you can’t do anything for a couple weeks now.” Oh, thank God. Like and then I…went… “Ohh, I need to stop over-committing and over-scheduling, so like…so I…I think you know the silver lining from that time period was that learning of like…I need to know when to say no…or I’ll see if I can make it, but don’t count on me kind of a thing. Like, it’s easier to…take it back, ‘Oh, you know what, I can make it after all.'” Or are you still on for this thing versus it’s so much harder…and…and we’ve all done it last minute, like, “Ohh, sorry, I can’t make it after all.” And then you make up some flimsy excuse, or don’t make any excuses… “Something came up. I…I can’t make it.”
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, all good points, all good points.
Speaker
Hmm.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And I wonder if…how much more time do you have? I know you’re on your lunch…one minute…yeah, I have about five more minutes. Yeah, okay. Any rapid-fire questions that we…Holly can address before we…where we call it? Line one…fine twice while we wait on that. I’m just going to go ahead and highlight your YouTube channel for those who aren’t familiar. Sharing…I think more about all things decluttering. Definitely not…my expertise…working on…all right, so this is…all these websites…YouTube…if…and I accidentally created two reminders for today…living at…manageable living at YouTube. We have lots of great information here on decluttering. I’m sure if you have any video requests, she’ll be more than happy to take those. And stay in the community. Be sure to subscribe to Mental Health Toolbox and Manageable Living. And if you would like any more follow-up Q&As like this, just let us know. I think this was a…a fun conversation.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Absolutely.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
And we will definitely be open to doing more of this, right? So absolutely. Alright. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Holly, it’s…
[HOLLY ALLISON]
You’re so welcome.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
…been great to have you on. And I will hopefully be able to chat with you again.
[HOLLY ALLISON]
Sounds awesome. Thanks so much, Patrick.
[PATRICK MARTIN LCSW]
My pleasure. You have a great week. You too. Hey, if you’re getting value from this content and you haven’t done so already, be sure to like and subscribe to the YouTube channel and podcast, and be sure to subscribe to the MHT newsletter. That way you don’t miss out on any new content as it’s released. Links in the description.
Are you looking to start a podcast? Then see this episode’s show notes for our unique promo code to get up to two months of free podcasting service with Libsyn. When you sign up for a new account, get your show on Apple and Spotify. Get helpful audience building stats and all the support you need to sound your best. They can even do video, bring your podcast to life and have your voice heard here, there, and everywhere, with Libsyn. Again, see our show notes for our unique Libsyn promo code and get podcasting.
Begin typing your search term above and press enter to search. Press ESC to cancel.
Back To Top
This website uses cookies to improve your experience. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. Cookie settingsACCEPT
Privacy & Cookies Policy
Privacy Overview
This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are as essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience.
Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. These cookies do not store any personal information.
