Do you struggle with confidence, low self-esteem, or social anxiety?
Then stick around, because in this episode of the Mental Health Toolbox, we are talking with Clinical Psychologist Dr. J.J. Kelly, AKA, The Punk Rock Doc, on the importance of learning emotional intelligence skills for improving our self-esteem. So Let’s Go!
*Some of the links found here are affiliate links: As an Associate I earn from qualifying purchases by way of commission at no additional cost to you. See full disclaimer here:
Table of Contents
BIO: Dr. J.J. Kelly, Psy.D.
Helping Misfits Unlock Their Superpowers
After 16 years of passionately working in the current system of the mental health profession and seeing the systemic sexism, racism, homophobia, ableism, narcissism and elitism…I wanted nothing more than to burn it all down.
Then I decided to redirect my outrage into building something new based on love, laughter, and teaching emotional intelligence – because I believe that global healing is achieved by teaching people the skills to like themselves, or as I always say….Happy people act right.
https://www.drjjkelly.com/about
Learn More About Dr. Kelly, Emotional Intelligence Expert.
About Dr. Kelly:
Dr. J.J. Kelly, The Punk Rock Doc, is a licensed clinical psychologist, emotional intelligence skills training expert, and bestselling author of The Holy Sh*t Series.
Dr. Kelly is also the CEO & Founder of UnorthoDocs, Inc., a punk alternative to traditional psychotherapy.
Dr. Kelly and the Unortho “Docs” live their lives with the belief that global healing is achieved by teaching people the skills to like themselves.
Dr. J.J. Kelly believes that “Happy People Act Right!”
BOOKS:
The Holy Sh*t Series(3 book series): https://amzn.to/3UDOElP
–I’m Dealing With A Narcissist
SOCIAL:
Connect with Dr. Kelly:
Website: https://www.drjjkelly.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjjkelly/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLWVu-64eiNvhsV56y4jC4g
Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3sTkmZGTtfvAYJmOvYRgG5
Watch The Interview
If you liked this episode, be sure to check out my full playlist of interviews here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnPL9gahfhWatKmy2YSyU0jt20h_jrj3H
Want to learn more? Check out my top picks for books on self-improvement and recovery HERE!
NEED CRISIS HELP? If you need immediate crisis help with your depression, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or text “START” to 741-741
OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES: See International Suicide Hotlines
WHERE TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP:
-NAMI Referral Helpline: 1-800-950-6264
-California’s Statewide Mental Health Helpline: 1-855-845-7415
ASK: If you have a question you’d like me to answer here on the blog (even if you think it’s a silly one!), please use the form on the CONTACT ME page, or the comment section below. I would be happy to take a poke at it and provide a long form answer when appropriate.
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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT:
00:00:00 Patrick Martin
What do you feel?
00:00:01 Patrick Martin
Especially with youth, what do you feel becomes the biggest hurdles for them around self-esteem and confidence?
00:00:07 Dr. Kelly
Oh dear Jane, they behave like.
00:00:11 Dr. Kelly
Wusses, they know it.
00:00:14 Dr. Kelly
They try to cover it up.
00:00:16 Dr. Kelly
It creates shame and then that it then they have fear about hiding the shame from everybody.
00:00:23 Dr. Kelly
Spikes anxiety, which increases the chances of them behaving in a way that causes more shame.
00:00:29 Dr. Kelly
And then they’re in that ****** washing machine situation.
00:00:32 Patrick Martin
Do you struggle with confidence, low self-esteem, or social anxiety?
00:00:35 Patrick Martin
Then stick around.
00:00:36 Patrick Martin
Because in this episode of the mental Health Toolbox, we’re talking with clinical psychologist Dr JJ Kelly, AKA the punk rock doc on the importance of learning emotional intelligence skills to improve your self esteem.
00:00:50 Patrick Martin
So let’s go.
00:01:01 Patrick Martin
Doctor JJ Kelly, the punk rock Doc, is a licensed clinical psychologist, emotional intelligence skills training expert, and bestselling author.
00:01:11 Patrick Martin
JJ is also the CEO and founder of Unorthodox incorporated, a punk alternative to traditional psychotherapy.
00:01:20 Patrick Martin
Doctor Kelly.
00:01:21 Patrick Martin
And the unorthodox live their lives with the belief that the best global healing is achieved by teaching people the skills to like themselves.
00:01:30 Patrick Martin
Doctor JJ Kelly believes that Happy People act right?
00:01:34 Patrick Martin
So let’s dive in.
00:01:36 Patrick Martin
You can learn more about Doctor JJ Kelly work at Doctor JJ kelly.com. Hello, doctor Kelly. Thank you so much for making time to be on the mental Health Toolbox Podcast today. I really appreciate it and I’m excited to learn more about your work.
00:01:50 Patrick Martin
And what you’re doing?
00:01:52 Dr. Kelly
Thank you.
00:01:53 Dr. Kelly
Happy New year.
00:01:54 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes.
00:01:56 Patrick Martin
So this will be fun.
00:01:57 Patrick Martin
I did a little of course research on the work you’re doing.
00:02:00 Patrick Martin
It’s very exciting.
00:02:01 Patrick Martin
But let’s go ahead and have you introduce yourself and what it is that you do and what you want to share.
00:02:06 Dr. Kelly
Cool, I already like that you said Doctor Kelly because.
00:02:10 Dr. Kelly
The everybody says there’s like this trend of people saying Doctor JJ.
00:02:15 Dr. Kelly
Which I want to leave.
00:02:15 Speaker 3
Oh, yes.
00:02:17 Patrick Martin
I was going to ask about that, yeah.
00:02:19 Speaker 3
Yeah, I.
00:02:20 Dr. Kelly
Mean, I don’t say any people can do whatever they want.
00:02:22 Dr. Kelly
I don’t care but it.
00:02:24 Dr. Kelly
Reminds me of like.
00:02:26 Dr. Kelly
Like Doctor Laura and Doctor Phil.
00:02:29
All that?
00:02:31 Dr. Kelly
Like that’s like the real deal.
00:02:31 Speaker 3
Right.
00:02:34 Dr. Kelly
Says the last name.
00:02:36 Dr. Kelly
Like the beginning of time, you know?
00:02:39 Dr. Kelly
So I I don’t know, maybe if I’m like on TV, I’m gonna have to be.
00:02:43 Dr. Kelly
Like ask Doctor JJ some.
00:02:44 Patrick Martin
It’s more trendy, yeah.
00:02:46 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:02:48 Dr. Kelly
But I like that, yes, so.
00:02:50 Dr. Kelly
What do you want to know?
00:02:52 Patrick Martin
All right.
00:02:52 Patrick Martin
Well, I would of course.
00:02:53 Patrick Martin
Love to learn about.
00:02:54 Patrick Martin
Uh, how you got into the work you’re doing?
00:02:57 Patrick Martin
I know you’re in psychologist, obviously, Psy.D, right?
00:03:00 Speaker 3
Yep, exactly.
00:03:00 Patrick Martin
Clinical psychologist.
00:03:01 Patrick Martin
So you walked.
00:03:03 Patrick Martin
But definitely the work you’re doing with this particular population around interpersonal effectiveness and self esteem work.
00:03:11 Patrick Martin
I think our listeners and our other clinicians, you know, our audience is a mixed pack between the two and my aim with this show is of course to provide actionable information skills.
00:03:23 Patrick Martin
They can actually you.
00:03:23 Patrick Martin
Know improve our quality of life.
00:03:26 Patrick Martin
Not all just.
00:03:27 Patrick Martin
But you know, what does it look like?
00:03:29 Patrick Martin
How do we do it?
00:03:30 Patrick Martin
You know, I’m very tangible finding.
00:03:32 Dr. Kelly
Like right now.
00:03:34 Patrick Martin
What can we do today to improve your quality of life, you know, by even.
00:03:37 Patrick Martin
1%, right.
00:03:38 Dr. Kelly
Love it, love it already.
00:03:39 Patrick Martin
So I’m looking for the levers, right?
00:03:42 Dr. Kelly
I can see like our values aligning, which is part of the answer to the question, is like you were saying, you know, emotion regulation, actually all the modules of DBT support.
00:03:57 Dr. Kelly
Someone being able to act in alignment with their values even when they’re emotionally activated.
00:04:03 Dr. Kelly
So something goes on.
00:04:05 Dr. Kelly
When we’re not trained right in emotional intelligence, a switch flips and we decide to give ourselves permission to act the *******, because we’re that.
00:04:18 Dr. Kelly
So somehow, you know, we just decide it’s justified.
00:04:23 Dr. Kelly
To behave in this.
00:04:24 Dr. Kelly
And then we have shame about it later.
00:04:26 Dr. Kelly
But I think.
00:04:27 Dr. Kelly
The key to happiness it it’s mostly just reducing shame so that you can embrace the world as you are authentically and then behave how you actually want to behave because it.
00:04:42 Dr. Kelly
Aligns with your values.
00:04:44 Dr. Kelly
So that’s easy conceptually.
00:04:48 Dr. Kelly
And it’s actually not that hard when you once you get trained to.
00:04:53 Dr. Kelly
I mean, I have a.
00:04:54 Dr. Kelly
Lot of.
00:04:55 Dr. Kelly
Young people and.
00:04:56 Dr. Kelly
People of all ages actually.
00:04:58 Dr. Kelly
That you know their their self esteem was in.
00:05:01 Dr. Kelly
The toilet when we met.
00:05:03 Dr. Kelly
And you truly can discipline yourself and train yourself.
00:05:09 Dr. Kelly
To notice those moments that used to bite you in the *** later.
00:05:14 Dr. Kelly
And just don’t do that.
00:05:18 Patrick Martin
Right. Well, retrospect, nice.
00:05:20 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, but you can start to anticipate it if you can get real about.
00:05:26 Dr. Kelly
What your usual ******* behaviors are, we call it willfulness.
00:05:30 Dr. Kelly
So your willful behaviors, the ones you already know, you engage in when you’re emotionally activated, that you pay a price later, usually with shame.
00:05:41 Dr. Kelly
So if you can be honest with yourself, which we do, such naked honesty, it’s so brave.
00:05:48 Dr. Kelly
I just love it so much.
00:05:50 Dr. Kelly
When we laugh till we laugh at ourselves, which I think is, you know, that shows you got some resilience if you can laugh.
00:05:56 Patrick Martin
Oh, absolutely, yes.
00:05:58 Dr. Kelly
So we all like to spill laugh about it.
00:06:02 Dr. Kelly
And then that puts it in your mind to start anticipating what kind of situation usually makes you do.
00:06:12 Dr. Kelly
That thing ’cause it’s a situation.
00:06:14 Dr. Kelly
Right, it’s not our fault.
00:06:16 Dr. Kelly
It’s bad out there.
00:06:17 Dr. Kelly
That’s the problem.
00:06:17 Speaker 3
Right, right.
00:06:18 Dr. Kelly
You know, if they just do exactly what I want, everything will.
00:06:22 Dr. Kelly
Be fine.
00:06:25 Patrick Martin
I feel like we’re so simple.
00:06:27 Dr. Kelly
Right.
00:06:27 Dr. Kelly
And that’s not what reality is.
00:06:29 Dr. Kelly
So you know you, you.
00:06:31 Dr. Kelly
Play with the cards you got dealt.
00:06:32 Dr. Kelly
Some of the cards are.
00:06:33 Dr. Kelly
Gonna be ****** sometimes.
00:06:34 Dr. Kelly
So deal with it and still continue to behave according to your values.
00:06:40 Dr. Kelly
And when you do that in a difficult situation, you’re really scared.
00:06:45 Dr. Kelly
You’re really mature.
00:06:47 Dr. Kelly
Emotionally activated.
00:06:49 Dr. Kelly
And then you do.
00:06:50 Dr. Kelly
The thing you wanted to do and you collect your own data.
00:06:55 Dr. Kelly
That the emotional intelligence skills work.
00:06:59 Dr. Kelly
Now you’re starting to build self-confidence and self esteem. You’re not eroding it with both behaviors.
00:07:05 Dr. Kelly
You used to do.
00:07:07 Patrick Martin
All right.
00:07:07 Patrick Martin
Well, that’s a wrap, everybody.
00:07:09 Patrick Martin
About something.
00:07:10 Dr. Kelly
Right.
00:07:14 Dr. Kelly
But it’s so simple to like, you can hear that.
00:07:15 Speaker 3
Right.
00:07:17 Dr. Kelly
Like you know the truth when you hear it.
00:07:19 Dr. Kelly
It’s not like I’m saying something that’s novel.
00:07:22 Dr. Kelly
However, it’s also novel, not, and is because.
00:07:28 Dr. Kelly
People don’t practice it.
00:07:31 Dr. Kelly
But you can know it without doing it knowing.
00:07:34 Dr. Kelly
It doesn’t get you there.
00:07:35 Dr. Kelly
A lot of smart people are full of shame and anxiety and reducing their capacity to experience joy daily.
00:07:46 Dr. Kelly
It’s not about smart.
00:07:48 Dr. Kelly
You just ’cause your IQ is high doesn’t mean your emotional intelligence is high.
00:07:51 Dr. Kelly
I got kids that have way more emotional intelligence than veteran clinicians.
00:07:57 Speaker 3
Mm-hmm. That’s true. Yeah.
00:07:58 Dr. Kelly
They do the work, they don’t talk about it or just have a job where like they get to portray themselves as smart all the time.
00:08:08 Patrick Martin
Right, right, exactly.
00:08:09 Dr. Kelly
That’s not real.
00:08:13 Patrick Martin
Yeah, that’s very well said.
00:08:13 Dr. Kelly
So that’s my problem with profession.
00:08:16 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes.
00:08:17 Patrick Martin
Well, I’m with you on that.
00:08:18 Patrick Martin
Definitely, I mean.
00:08:20 Patrick Martin
When we speak from lived experience, I feel like it goes a whole lot further faster, especially in working with clients, when we when we have a not just sympathy, but empathy for what their struggles are, you know, in my.
00:08:32 Patrick Martin
My experience to working with, that’s why, you know, I have such a passion for working with, you know, the underdogs and people, you know, people who grew up with unorthodox backgrounds and had to essentially bootstrap their way.
00:08:45 Patrick Martin
I don’t even like that term, bootstrap, but basically figure out how to.
00:08:50 Patrick Martin
Be resourceful.
00:08:51 Patrick Martin
Figure out how that come into understanding that where you start in life does not determine where you end up right.
00:08:56 Speaker 3
Hold on it.
00:08:57 Patrick Martin
There’s always choices and.
00:08:59 Patrick Martin
You know how to overcome things like social anxiety and shame and guilt and fear, right?
00:09:05 Patrick Martin
And never not feeling like enough and impostor syndrome and everything that comes with that, right?
00:09:11 Patrick Martin
It’s have such a especially young adult, such a strong passion for that.
00:09:14 Patrick Martin
So yeah.
00:09:15 Dr. Kelly
And you just need.
00:09:16 Dr. Kelly
One adult to listen and validate what you’re going through.
00:09:21 Dr. Kelly
Regularly enough.
00:09:22 Dr. Kelly
That’s all you need to like.
00:09:24 Dr. Kelly
Move forward.
00:09:26 Patrick Martin
Right, right, absolutely fantastic and.
00:09:28 Dr. Kelly
And I think.
00:09:29 Dr. Kelly
I’ve it’s a privilege to.
00:09:31 Dr. Kelly
Be that adult for so many people.
00:09:34 Dr. Kelly
I mean strong ever so for me.
00:09:38 Patrick Martin
Yeah, it’s.
00:09:40 Patrick Martin
Being a therapist and counselor is like I, I, I don’t take it for granted.
00:09:44 Patrick Martin
It’s a privilege.
00:09:45 Patrick Martin
It’s an honor to be able to just be a part of somebody story, to listen to somebody story, you know, to be a confidant.
00:09:52 Patrick Martin
It’s really quite, quite a thing, you know?
00:09:55 Patrick Martin
Is provide a safe space, so I know we’ve already touched on a lot.
00:10:00 Patrick Martin
We’ve driven by a lot things.
00:10:01 Patrick Martin
I definitely want to dive more into those concepts of things like.
00:10:05 Patrick Martin
Self concept versus self in context, right?
00:10:09 Patrick Martin
Sometimes, like you said, we look for.
00:10:11 Patrick Martin
External validation, right?
00:10:14 Patrick Martin
Or we’re afraid to take chances, right?
00:10:17 Patrick Martin
So the application comes in?
00:10:19 Patrick Martin
The self shame, the doubt, the fear.
00:10:22 Patrick Martin
Of disappointment, of abandonment, of failure.
00:10:24 Patrick Martin
The things that really get in our way right, that stem directly from self esteem.
00:10:30 Patrick Martin
And so even touching on what you were just talking about a little bit ago with how we look backwards, right?
00:10:36 Patrick Martin
And in DBT, that’s called chaining, right?
00:10:39 Patrick Martin
You take an event, you break it down into the sequence of events, right?
00:10:43 Patrick Martin
And then you look for points of intervention.
00:10:45 Patrick Martin
So what could we have done would have been done different, what skills could be applied and then we look for.
00:10:49 Patrick Martin
Future implications, right?
00:10:51 Patrick Martin
How can we do this differently in the future and so?
00:10:53 Speaker 3
Yeah, that.
00:10:54 Dr. Kelly
Old time CBT added to.
00:10:56 Patrick Martin
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:57 Dr. Kelly
PvP I mean.
00:10:58 Dr. Kelly
Then it’s not reinventing the wheel.
00:11:01 Dr. Kelly
These things make sense.
00:11:03 Dr. Kelly
Just knowing it isn’t the same as doing it, man.
00:11:07 Dr. Kelly
You gotta do the thing.
00:11:09 Patrick Martin
I was having a conversation with my brother yesterday.
00:11:12 Patrick Martin
On the phone.
00:11:13 Patrick Martin
And he’s a, you know, he’s a academic currently writing a book and stuff.
00:11:17 Patrick Martin
And he was asking me about some concept, you know, like some ideas for a chapter around.
00:11:23 Patrick Martin
Managing positive, negative emotions and stuff like that.
00:11:26 Patrick Martin
And so then I went off on a rabbit show like, well, you know, nothing really new.
00:11:30 Patrick Martin
You know, since Napoleon Hill.
00:11:33 Patrick Martin
Think and grow rich.
00:11:34 Patrick Martin
You know same principles, just kind of regurgitated over and over again and self help and and application.
00:11:40 Patrick Martin
But that’s because the good good news about that is because it.
00:11:43 Patrick Martin
You know, once we understand human behavior.
00:11:46 Patrick Martin
It’s pretty fixed.
00:11:49 Patrick Martin
The Prince of Ish.
00:11:50 Patrick Martin
But the, I mean, the, the principles around managing our emotions, managing these internal struggles for the most part are, you know, there’s a common thread.
00:11:59 Patrick Martin
Here, yeah.
00:12:01 Patrick Martin
And so whether we call, you know, whatever we want to package, that the principles are salient.
00:12:06 Speaker 3
So that’s the good.
00:12:07 Dr. Kelly
News, and it’s it’s such a great model, DBT, because we don’t have to agree.
00:12:15 Dr. Kelly
And I I can validate you without agreeing your values might be different than my values and it’s about I got.
00:12:23 Dr. Kelly
Skills to help you.
00:12:25 Dr. Kelly
Behave how you want to behave according to your values.
00:12:29 Dr. Kelly
So it doesn’t have to be like the doctor knows everything and.
00:12:32 Dr. Kelly
You don’t know anything.
00:12:33 Dr. Kelly
Just do you know I’m not into that.
00:12:37 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:12:38 Patrick Martin
Everyone is an expert of their own life.
00:12:40 Patrick Martin
They know what their struggles are.
00:12:42 Patrick Martin
They usually have the answers already within them who just figure out what those are, help them, you know, figure out what, pull that out, right, how to apply it, how to address those, those fears, those concerns, those barriers.
00:12:53 Patrick Martin
But before we dive any further into that, I’m wondering if you could share with little with us.
00:12:57 Patrick Martin
A little bit about your experience as a psychologist.
00:13:00 Patrick Martin
What pulls you into this particular aspect you know niche of?
00:13:05 Patrick Martin
Psychology, you know, be DBT or interpersonal effectiveness and and maybe the populations you work with the most and why.
00:13:13 Dr. Kelly
OK, well I.
00:13:16 Dr. Kelly
Pretty much the second I learned.
00:13:18 Dr. Kelly
What DBT was back in grad school, I mean, was at 2002.
00:13:25 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, I was like, Oh yeah, that definitely that.
00:13:30 Dr. Kelly
You know, sometimes you get into it if you.
00:13:33 Dr. Kelly
Know your gut talks to you about that.
00:13:35 Dr. Kelly
And also like, come on.
00:13:37 Dr. Kelly
Ride the horse the way it’s going.
00:13:39 Dr. Kelly
I mean, you get to square, you get to be.
00:13:41 Dr. Kelly
Real easy to get to, you know.
00:13:43 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:13:45 Dr. Kelly
Challenge and you know the.
00:13:48 Dr. Kelly
Authenticity is just so built in.
00:13:51 Dr. Kelly
And the thing.
00:13:52 Dr. Kelly
I was talking about before.
00:13:53 Dr. Kelly
We don’t have to have the same values in order for it to work.
00:13:59 Dr. Kelly
It’s your choice.
00:14:00 Dr. Kelly
It’s very empowering.
00:14:02 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, it isn’t.
00:14:03 Dr. Kelly
The doctor knows.
00:14:04 Dr. Kelly
I mean, what was I gonna do it being the analyst?
00:14:07 Dr. Kelly
Like, I don’t.
00:14:09 Dr. Kelly
Like I was going to go the Freudian, super sexist old ********.
00:14:14 Dr. Kelly
No, I wasn’t.
00:14:15 Dr. Kelly
I mean, I do think that’s interesting.
00:14:18 Dr. Kelly
It just always leaves you at like, OK, well what do you do about it now?
00:14:23 Dr. Kelly
Like right, DBT.
00:14:24 Dr. Kelly
So action oriented and that’s.
00:14:27 Dr. Kelly
How I am too.
00:14:28 Dr. Kelly
So it, you know, you find the thing that speaks to you and, uh, I just, you know, I liked it more and every year I.
00:14:39 Dr. Kelly
See, I mean.
00:14:39 Dr. Kelly
I’m I’m still a student of it, too.
00:14:42 Dr. Kelly
And I’ve been.
00:14:44 Dr. Kelly
Teaching it since like 2004.
00:14:47 Dr. Kelly
And if it just keeps, you know, I think that must be the.
00:14:51 Dr. Kelly
The Buddhist piece of it it you know, thousands of years old like it’s gonna take more than a lifetime to.
00:14:59 Dr. Kelly
Learn and master.
00:15:01 Dr. Kelly
And I certainly am an expert.
00:15:03 Dr. Kelly
On it however that.
00:15:06 Dr. Kelly
That if you’re going, I mean, if you really are smart, you know that you’re always learning.
00:15:12 Dr. Kelly
And to be open to that and it it’s ever evolving, I mean, I just dig that so much.
00:15:20 Dr. Kelly
The constant learning of it and teenagers, I don’t know, maybe that’s about my personality too, but like.
00:15:28 Dr. Kelly
I just got kept getting sent as an intern.
00:15:31 Dr. Kelly
I just kept getting sent.
00:15:33 Dr. Kelly
All the.
00:15:34 Dr. Kelly
Like most troubled kits.
00:15:37 Dr. Kelly
You know the self harming and all of it.
00:15:42 Dr. Kelly
You know the most acting out and I think that was because.
00:15:47 Dr. Kelly
The veterans that I worked under.
00:15:50 Dr. Kelly
Or, you know, they’re they were dealing with these parents who had like tried everything.
00:15:55 Dr. Kelly
And honestly, I think a lot of them were like just go to jail.
00:15:58 Dr. Kelly
Like, she can’t, like make him worse probably.
00:16:04 Dr. Kelly
But then they’re getting better and they’re, you know, they’re all they’re getting better, the sparkles coming back into their eyes and it’s just dumb.
00:16:13 Dr. Kelly
They can smell ********.
00:16:15 Dr. Kelly
A mile away.
00:16:16 Dr. Kelly
And you share that skill and we can just.
00:16:21 Dr. Kelly
Move really quickly.
00:16:23 Dr. Kelly
By getting right to that edge and keeping it real and then make it honesty, which requires courage and the trust right away.
00:16:33 Dr. Kelly
If we’re both being real, that happens very quickly and, you know, they’re kind of all or nothing.
00:16:38 Dr. Kelly
With the trust.
00:16:41 Dr. Kelly
And I get that.
00:16:42 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, and just hungry.
00:16:44 Dr. Kelly
So hungry.
00:16:45 Dr. Kelly
I remember being like that at 14 to being like, is any adult ever gonna listen to me?
00:16:51 Dr. Kelly
I think I’m smarter than half these teachers.
00:16:55 Dr. Kelly
Like I have things to say.
00:16:58 Dr. Kelly
And you’re just in such a lower power position.
00:17:02 Dr. Kelly
As a teenager, you know.
00:17:04 Dr. Kelly
But they do.
00:17:04 Dr. Kelly
Have things to say in.
00:17:06 Dr. Kelly
These my God, these kids are so much smarter than.
00:17:10 Dr. Kelly
I ever was, I mean.
00:17:11 Patrick Martin
All right.
00:17:12 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:17:13 Patrick Martin
Yeah, kind of find the time, right?
00:17:13 Dr. Kelly
Oh my gosh and the.
00:17:15 Dr. Kelly
Academic pressures.
00:17:16 Dr. Kelly
Oh my God, they’re so stressed out, you know, that we we suck around and stuff, you know, like lightweight trouble and.
00:17:24 Patrick Martin
Hi I was running the.
00:17:25 Patrick Martin
Streets at 14, I had no expectations.
00:17:28 Dr. Kelly
I mean, how we survived, even this is a miracle.
00:17:33 Dr. Kelly
But these kids are different.
00:17:35 Dr. Kelly
They’re scared, and then they’re ashamed that they’re so scared, and then they intellectually.
00:17:40 Dr. Kelly
They intellectualize right the defense of using their brains to, like, explain away their lack of courage.
00:17:50 Dr. Kelly
So that I didn’t know that was gonna be my job, but awesome, because I’m basically teaching them to play and laugh and experience joy, make mistakes.
00:18:03 Dr. Kelly
It’s not gonna kill you.
00:18:05 Dr. Kelly
Most of them.
00:18:07 Dr. Kelly
I mean, and beneath step it trespass for grace sake.
00:18:08 Speaker 3
Right.
00:18:11 Dr. Kelly
I mean, they don’t do any.
00:18:13 Dr. Kelly
They don’t do anything except get so stressed out.
00:18:17 Dr. Kelly
Then they take drugs.
00:18:19 Speaker 3
And that’s.
00:18:20 Dr. Kelly
Not, that’s not.
00:18:22 Dr. Kelly
You know, you have to have the courage to do brave things sober they’re going to turn into.
00:18:28 Dr. Kelly
Adults that like.
00:18:29 Dr. Kelly
Can’t have a conversation with people without alcohol in their system or something like we don’t want that.
00:18:35 Patrick Martin
Right, right, so.
00:18:38 Patrick Martin
So, yeah, as we’re talking about this, I was just thinking, like, it’s almost, you know, teenagers, that population early teens is kind of like Ground Zero for a lot of this work.
00:18:39 Dr. Kelly
It’s real. It’s so real.
00:18:48 Patrick Martin
Because a lot of this stuff.
00:18:50 Patrick Martin
These the way that we learn to cope with stress, the way that we learn to manage relationships and people and their what kind of risks to take.
00:18:58 Patrick Martin
A lot of that gets solidified into adulthood.
00:19:00 Patrick Martin
Like you said in substance abuse is part of the Max, then it’s kind of that whole Arrested Development thing.
00:19:05 Patrick Martin
You don’t learn how to feel your feelings and how to cope with that and it becomes a real problem and we have to repair it.
00:19:11 Patrick Martin
Ourselves as adults, there’s a lot more work.
00:19:14 Dr. Kelly
And sometimes when I think about, I mean it’s.
00:19:16 Dr. Kelly
Like I’ve prevented a whole.
00:19:21 Dr. Kelly
Bay Area generation from becoming narcissists, probably.
00:19:26 Speaker 3
There we go.
00:19:28 Dr. Kelly
You know, do you ever.
00:19:29 Dr. Kelly
Think about the.
00:19:29 Dr. Kelly
Like potential Ripple effect of your work with people.
00:19:35 Dr. Kelly
I don’t think about that much, but when I do Daydream about that, it’s so thrilling.
00:19:41 Dr. Kelly
To think about the impact and no, they some of I had somebody in their early 30s who I saw when she was 14 kind of text while in session, and I was like, Oh no, no, no, we don’t do that.
00:19:58 Dr. Kelly
And now she just had her second baby.
00:20:02 Dr. Kelly
I mean, Oh my gosh.
00:20:04 Patrick Martin
Wow, it’s generational.
00:20:06 Dr. Kelly
Wow. That’s mind-blowing, you know? And that’s 11, kid.
00:20:09 Speaker 3
It is.
00:20:13 Dr. Kelly
It’s so cool.
00:20:14 Patrick Martin
It is cool and you can zoom out and you see those the small wins and you’re like, wow OK so this you know you see if something.
00:20:20 Patrick Martin
Is making a difference. It’s.
00:20:21 Patrick Martin
A big deal.
00:20:22 Speaker 3
Mini dress.
00:20:22 Patrick Martin
Big deal?
00:20:23 Patrick Martin
Yeah, I know the work you’re doing is priceless because of the work I do and then people I worked with and especially in the DBT realm.
00:20:31 Patrick Martin
And so I know you know how, how crucial.
00:20:34 Patrick Martin
And how dedicated that work is, it’s not like a one and done it’s.
00:20:40 Patrick Martin
It’s a lot of, it’s a lot of deep work.
00:20:45 Dr. Kelly
That seems conversational.
00:20:47 Dr. Kelly
It’s sort of like.
00:20:47 Speaker 3
Emily Miller.
00:20:49 Dr. Kelly
A buddy of mine.
00:20:50 Dr. Kelly
I went to grad school with once described me to others as Doctor Kelly.
00:20:56 Dr. Kelly
She’s smoking mirrors people into happiness.
00:20:59 Dr. Kelly
Now that sounds a little mustache.
00:21:02 Dr. Kelly
Malevolent, but the idea is the laughter helps the medicine go down.
00:21:06 Dr. Kelly
You know, like a relaxed brain works.
00:21:08 Dr. Kelly
Better so if we’re if it appears like we’re shooting the **** and I’ve got 7 different things going on in the back of my brain, but it’s still light for the most part.
00:21:21 Dr. Kelly
I think it gets in better.
00:21:24 Patrick Martin
It’s like the whole alpha state of mind, you know, the alpha waves writes when we’re relaxed that our mind has room to breathe and can be curious and be inspired in the connection.
00:21:34 Dr. Kelly
Yes. Natives, yes.
00:21:38 Dr. Kelly
And a lot of this is.
00:21:40 Dr. Kelly
I mean, I’ve argued with an artist friend of mine, a painter, because I’m like, oh, I’m an artist.
00:21:46 Dr. Kelly
I am like.
00:21:48 Dr. Kelly
This thing that we do has.
00:21:51 Dr. Kelly
Impromptu it it has.
00:21:54 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, creative it has.
00:21:57 Dr. Kelly
Like trusting your own intuition and knowing how to separate that like there is such an intricate dance going on.
00:22:05 Dr. Kelly
That yeah, hell.
00:22:06 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, I’m an artist.
00:22:08 Patrick Martin
Absolutely, yes, absolutely.
00:22:08 Dr. Kelly
Air waiting, sending.
00:22:09 Dr. Kelly
You don’t know what the heck you’re talking about.
00:22:13 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:22:14 Dr. Kelly
Mary nothing.
00:22:14 Patrick Martin
Yes, counseling in and of itself isn’t art, right?
00:22:19 Patrick Martin
But especially when you’re dealing with a lot of the deep work kind of stuff you’re doing, it’s definitely an art and binding, and it’s going to be different because every every person is a different canvas.
00:22:29 Patrick Martin
In that sense, every relationship is unique between the chemistry of the counselor.
00:22:33 Patrick Martin
And the client or what we want column consumer, client, patient, person right?
00:22:38 Patrick Martin
Student purchased a unique dynamic that you know might require different approach every time and so very unique indeed, yeah.
00:22:47 Dr. Kelly
And that’s fun too.
00:22:48 Dr. Kelly
Who said fresh every day?
00:22:48 Speaker 3
And it is.
00:22:54 Patrick Martin
So I’m curious.
00:22:55 Patrick Martin
There’s really, I mean, in my mind there’s really 2 two things to marry here.
00:23:00 Patrick Martin
One is, what are the most applicable or interpersonal skills that you find really move the needle and what?
00:23:10 Patrick Martin
Areas do you feel are become the biggest challenges for self esteem, especially for youth as.
00:23:18 Patrick Martin
As there, when they get stuck right won’t be what keeps them stuck.
00:23:21 Dr. Kelly
Well, let’s OK, so.
00:23:25 Dr. Kelly
When I’m asked two questions like that, I can’t.
00:23:30 Dr. Kelly
Like, what was the let’s do?
00:23:32 Dr. Kelly
Them separately since they are related, but in order to stay in.
00:23:32 Patrick Martin
Notorious for double barreled question.
00:23:36 Dr. Kelly
The present I want.
00:23:37 Patrick Martin
Yeah, so maybe we’ll start with the self esteem.
00:23:39 Patrick Martin
So what do you feel, especially with youth, what do you feel becomes the biggest hurdles for them around self esteem and confidence?
00:23:47 Dr. Kelly
Oh dear, and change they they behave like.
00:23:51 Dr. Kelly
Wu says they know it.
00:23:54 Dr. Kelly
They try to cover it up.
00:23:55 Dr. Kelly
It creates shame and then that.
00:23:58 Dr. Kelly
Then they have see about hiding the shame from everybody, which spikes anxiety, which increases the chances of them behaving in a way that causes more shame.
00:24:08 Dr. Kelly
And then they’re in that ****** washing machine situation.
00:24:11 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes, that’s very well put.
00:24:14 Dr. Kelly
Is it so helpless she talking machine?
00:24:15 Patrick Martin
Yeah, yeah, I’m very visual.
00:24:17 Patrick Martin
A visual talker, you know.
00:24:19 Dr. Kelly
I got here.
00:24:21 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:22 Dr. Kelly
So what was what was the first question?
00:24:25 Dr. Kelly
Oh, the the skill, right.
00:24:27 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:24:27 Patrick Martin
Which skills do you feel help in terms of moving the needle away from?
00:24:32 Patrick Martin
Perhaps, if shame is the biggest challenge, what skills do you feel really help?
00:24:38 Patrick Martin
On get them unstuck.
00:24:40 Patrick Martin
In that area.
00:24:41 Dr. Kelly
Well I I have two answers for that though.
00:24:44 Dr. Kelly
What I thought when you first asked it was the validation piece.
00:24:47 Dr. Kelly
Uhm you as you know.
00:24:50 Dr. Kelly
The cornerstone of DBT is validation and.
00:24:54 Dr. Kelly
All that means is naming your emotions and making sure they’re separate from thoughts.
00:24:59 Dr. Kelly
Like ranks have totally sucked up and told people just given.
00:25:05 Dr. Kelly
I feel statements so now everybody says I feel all the time, even when it’s a thought.
00:25:11 Dr. Kelly
I feel like I feel that those are thoughts.
00:25:14 Dr. Kelly
If there’s a.
00:25:15 Dr. Kelly
That or like after the word feel.
00:25:17 Dr. Kelly
It’s a thought.
00:25:19 Dr. Kelly
Very next word is to be happy, sad.
00:25:20 Patrick Martin
Great important distinction, yes.
00:25:22 Dr. Kelly
I do a lot of this.
00:25:25 Dr. Kelly
And write it out too, so that you can visually see the like or that after the word feel.
00:25:33 Dr. Kelly
If you can cross out the word feel and replace it with the word think and the sentence still works, that’s a thought, not pulling.
00:25:42 Dr. Kelly
So just being able to separate.
00:25:45 Dr. Kelly
Thoughts and feelings with language.
00:25:48 Dr. Kelly
Is in and of itself, validation and naming your feelings is an internal validation system instead of looking being dependent on the environment.
00:26:01 Dr. Kelly
External validation, basically a recipe for narcissism.
00:26:07 Dr. Kelly
So just keep naming your emotions and you don’t have to do that.
00:26:11 Dr. Kelly
It’s no big deal, but it’s no big.
00:26:13 Dr. Kelly
I feel angry, but it’s no big deal that’s invalidating your anger.
00:26:17 Speaker 3
Right.
00:26:18 Dr. Kelly
Just leave it.
00:26:19 Dr. Kelly
Or, or better yet, notice that the it’s no big deal.
00:26:24 Dr. Kelly
Is a thought generated by the feeling that you’re having and now separate that thoughts are not.
00:26:30 Dr. Kelly
Just because we think them.
00:26:33 Dr. Kelly
They’re subject to argument even within themselves, whereas the emotions are not.
00:26:35 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:26:41 Dr. Kelly
Donna says again, it’s so simple.
00:26:44 Dr. Kelly
Nobody does it.
00:26:46 Dr. Kelly
Nobody does it and.
00:26:48 Patrick Martin
I struggle with that and I’m a, you know, I’m.
00:26:50 Patrick Martin
Trained in this area I have to.
00:26:51 Speaker 3
Right.
00:26:52 Patrick Martin
Catch myself all the.
00:26:53 Patrick Martin
Time like really?
00:26:53 Dr. Kelly
Hey, we all come.
00:26:54 Dr. Kelly
From a family that, like, encourage certain emotions and discourage others.
00:26:59 Dr. Kelly
Also, we live in a patriarchy, so as a dude you the only emotion you’re allowed to feel societally sanctioned is anger.
00:27:07 Dr. Kelly
Well, that sucks.
00:27:09 Patrick Martin
Right, bad recipe.
00:27:11 Dr. Kelly
Right, you know, but also like whatever family, you know, we didn’t do fear in my family.
00:27:16 Dr. Kelly
It went right to anger.
00:27:18 Dr. Kelly
Irish, Midwestern, you know.
00:27:20
I mean all.
00:27:21 Dr. Kelly
Kinds of reasons.
00:27:22 Dr. Kelly
You know a lot of a lot.
00:27:24 Dr. Kelly
Of the Bay.
00:27:25 Dr. Kelly
Area people do not do anger.
00:27:28 Dr. Kelly
Just really dangerous for kids because anger is the one that tells you your boundaries are being crossed.
00:27:36
Jason, talk about a.
00:27:37 Dr. Kelly
Recipe for shame and anxiety you never do.
00:27:41 Dr. Kelly
Steal things. Skyrocket.
00:27:45 Dr. Kelly
Fear and anxiety as quick or as hard as stuffed anger.
00:27:50 Patrick Martin
Right. Containment.
00:27:52 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, and they got no idea.
00:27:55 Dr. Kelly
It it appears like it presents like generalized anxiety.
00:27:59 Dr. Kelly
They don’t know.
00:28:01 Dr. Kelly
They can’t pinpoint the source.
00:28:04 Dr. Kelly
That makes my job.
00:28:05 Dr. Kelly
So easy like they wear it, I can see.
00:28:09 Dr. Kelly
It on them.
00:28:10 Dr. Kelly
Before a word is spoken, they kind of.
00:28:14 Dr. Kelly
Hover with like they reverberate, like you conceal that when somebody got that kind of anxiety on board, it’s like who that is like time bomb E.
00:28:27 Patrick Martin
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:28:29 Dr. Kelly
And they need to.
00:28:30 Dr. Kelly
To have like a valve release, that’s.
00:28:34 Dr. Kelly
Uncomfortable, but tolerable.
00:28:38 Dr. Kelly
You know, you don’t blow the lid off somebody.
00:28:40 Dr. Kelly
That’s stuffed anger for years or decades.
00:28:43 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:28:43 Patrick Martin
Let it be compressed for us, right?
00:28:45 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, like.
00:28:45 Patrick Martin
It’s some way to bend it before you know.
00:28:47 Dr. Kelly
We work together.
00:28:48 Patrick Martin
You pop the top.
00:28:49 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, you don’t pop.
00:28:50 Dr. Kelly
The balloon you just like.
00:28:53 Dr. Kelly
You know.
00:28:55 Dr. Kelly
Until they’re like, OK, I’ve had enough.
00:28:58 Dr. Kelly
Fine, yes.
00:29:00 Dr. Kelly
I respect that.
00:29:01 Dr. Kelly
And then that’s modeling boundaries.
00:29:06 Dr. Kelly
You know, a lot of our work, I think, is just being a decent human being and showing them how it’s done.
00:29:13 Dr. Kelly
How to be happy, how to like yourself, how to behave according to your own values, which increases self esteem and self-confidence. That’s leadership.
00:29:26 Dr. Kelly
Not telling people what to do, all of that transpires he can without words.
00:29:32 Dr. Kelly
They can just watch.
00:29:34 Patrick Martin
Once that same word is caught than taught.
00:29:37 Dr. Kelly
I wouldn’t say that again.
00:29:37 Patrick Martin
Remember, more is caught than taught, right?
00:29:40 Dr. Kelly
I have never heard that before.
00:29:42 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:43 Dr. Kelly
Or maybe I did.
00:29:43 Patrick Martin
I heard it.
00:29:43 Patrick Martin
Somewhere stuck with me.
00:29:45 Patrick Martin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:48 Patrick Martin
Nonverbal body language modeling, right?
00:29:51 Patrick Martin
Yeah, like you said, just by basically.
00:29:54 Speaker 3
Right.
00:29:55 Patrick Martin
Being empathetic I if I can by being genuine, transparent and vulnerable to other people.
00:30:00 Dr. Kelly
Finish it, yes.
00:30:01 Patrick Martin
Yeah, it’s a great yeah, very well put.
00:30:06 Dr. Kelly
I’m not being complimented for curse.
00:30:08 Speaker 3
Right.
00:30:08 Dr. Kelly
I get so much crap for it, so it’s.
00:30:10 Speaker 3
Oh really?
00:30:11 Dr. Kelly
Oh God, not from my clients.
00:30:15 Dr. Kelly
Not from clients, from colleagues, mostly.
00:30:18 Patrick Martin
Yeah, well, that’s not the world we.
00:30:20 Dr. Kelly
It’s nice.
00:30:21 Patrick Martin
Live in so.
00:30:23 Dr. Kelly
It’s usually like.
00:30:24 Dr. Kelly
Mail merge much older than me.
00:30:27 Dr. Kelly
Go figure.
00:30:28 Patrick Martin
Right, right.
00:30:29 Patrick Martin
And when clients apologize for cursing in session, I’m like, no, no, please, do you.
00:30:34 Patrick Martin
I’m not here to stifle you, you know?
00:30:37 Dr. Kelly
Hey, that would early on.
00:30:38 Dr. Kelly
I’m like, hello, have we met?
00:30:41 Dr. Kelly
Curse away.
00:30:42 Dr. Kelly
You can’t curse at me.
00:30:44 Dr. Kelly
I have very few rules, but cursing at me is one of them.
00:30:48 Dr. Kelly
Can’t break them. ****.
00:30:48 Speaker 3
Of course, right.
00:30:49 Dr. Kelly
Either, you know, like.
00:30:52 Dr. Kelly
Could use.
00:30:52 Dr. Kelly
Things get heated from time to time.
00:30:55 Patrick Martin
Oh, sure.
00:30:56 Patrick Martin
Yeah, like you mentioned, sometimes anger is a good sign.
00:31:00 Dr. Kelly
Yes, yeah, ’cause it’s.
00:31:00 Speaker 3
Right.
00:31:01 Patrick Martin
Specially in this population.
00:31:02 Dr. Kelly
Doing it inward for years, even when it’s met, a lot of it’s meant.
00:31:09 Dr. Kelly
For someone or something else.
00:31:12 Patrick Martin
Right, But if they feel safe enough to display anger in session, that’s.
00:31:17 Patrick Martin
It’s a good thing unless like you.
00:31:18 Patrick Martin
Said unless it’s aggressive, but.
00:31:20 Dr. Kelly
And even if it is like, I can contain it, you know, like I I don’t have to, like, physically take people down anymore.
00:31:28 Dr. Kelly
I don’t do that work anymore.
00:31:31 Dr. Kelly
And you?
00:31:31 Dr. Kelly
Know people are.
00:31:32 Dr. Kelly
In my home now so.
00:31:33 Patrick Martin
Right. OK.
00:31:34 Dr. Kelly
Like up on the deck, like.
00:31:35 Dr. Kelly
Ah, that they have to make.
00:31:37 Dr. Kelly
A cut to know where I live.
00:31:42 Dr. Kelly
I gotta know I’m not gonna be in danger within a reasonable margin of error.
00:31:51 Speaker 3
Yeah, very good.
00:31:54 Patrick Martin
Very exciting work you’re doing.
00:31:55 Patrick Martin
It’s very excellent.
00:31:55
It is.
00:31:56
It’s so cool.
00:31:56 Patrick Martin
It is very exciting.
00:31:59 Patrick Martin
Now, you’ve written quite a bit about this work as well, right?
00:32:01 Patrick Martin
You have some.
00:32:02 Patrick Martin
You’re an author, not just a psychologist.
00:32:04 Patrick Martin
Got a series I, I believe.
00:32:07 Dr. Kelly
You, yes.
00:32:08 Dr. Kelly
The Holy **** series, yes.
00:32:11 Dr. Kelly
And I started with the cutting book.
00:32:13 Dr. Kelly
Holy ****, my kid is cutting because I I don’t really do much in the way of separate sessions with parents.
00:32:22 Dr. Kelly
’cause the kids won’t tell me anything.
00:32:24 Dr. Kelly
Then I’ve tried it.
00:32:25 Dr. Kelly
It doesn’t work.
00:32:26 Dr. Kelly
So I just don’t do it.
00:32:27 Dr. Kelly
People, particularly here, don’t like.
00:32:29 Dr. Kelly
That too bad.
00:32:31 Dr. Kelly
Go to someone else.
00:32:32 Dr. Kelly
But it was my.
00:32:34 Dr. Kelly
Gesture to parents to be like.
00:32:36 Dr. Kelly
Here’s a parenting manual.
00:32:38 Dr. Kelly
Like, I’m not going to have separate sessions with you, but you can see very clearly how I work and it gives you a lot of, you know, contracts, family contracts and like what kind of specialist.
00:32:50 Dr. Kelly
Go to like it’s it’s like, uh, here?
00:32:53 Dr. Kelly
You go.
00:32:53 Dr. Kelly
I’m not trying to hide things, I just.
00:32:56 Dr. Kelly
Need them to trust me.
00:32:58 Dr. Kelly
So the cutting book is a parenting manual whether your kid is self harming or not, and the second one, the holy ****, I’m a gifted misfit, is written for.
00:33:08 Dr. Kelly
The young folks, but it’s it’s like 8 weeks of DBT in the shortest book I could write.
00:33:16 Dr. Kelly
So that again, I can be like, well this is what I’m doing with.
00:33:20 Dr. Kelly
Your kid here?
00:33:22 Dr. Kelly
Read this or listen to it.
00:33:23 Dr. Kelly
It’s funnier if.
00:33:24 Dr. Kelly
You listen to it and then come.
00:33:27 Dr. Kelly
And The funny thing is, is the third book.
00:33:31 Dr. Kelly
Was originally going to be the first one.
00:33:34 Dr. Kelly
Years ago I started thinking about the holy ****, I’m dealing with a narcissist book.
00:33:40 Dr. Kelly
Fun topic, yes, they will love that I loathe.
00:33:44 Dr. Kelly
The fact that this word narcissist is being thrown around like it’s a synonym for ******* when it’s very complicated.
00:33:54 Dr. Kelly
Layered disorder. Uhm, so.
00:33:57 Dr. Kelly
I tried to.
00:33:59 Dr. Kelly
Give different snapshots of the kinds of narcissists you’ll come in contact with ’cause.
00:34:05 Dr. Kelly
It’s so complicated.
00:34:07 Dr. Kelly
And then give like a.
00:34:09 Dr. Kelly
This is what?
00:34:09 Dr. Kelly
They say and then this is what you usually say and that doesn’t work, say.
00:34:14 Dr. Kelly
Say this instead.
00:34:16 Dr. Kelly
They’re slippery, right?
00:34:18 Dr. Kelly
And they mess with your mind.
00:34:20 Dr. Kelly
All the gasoline.
00:34:21 Dr. Kelly
And stuff, you know.
00:34:21 Patrick Martin
I’m trying.
00:34:22 Patrick Martin
I’m tying that connection here too because I I believe.
00:34:26 Patrick Martin
Maybe the the the the origin right for for a book like that would be because when we’re talking about DBT or emotional dysregulation, a lot of that is formulated through our primary caregivers, right?
00:34:40 Patrick Martin
To a large extent, inconsistencies or.
00:34:44 Patrick Martin
Poor modeling or gap, you know, we think of things like gaslighting or and that, that kind of behavior to a child who’s already dichotomous.
00:34:52 Patrick Martin
Learning, learning how the world works, but then getting.
00:34:57 Patrick Martin
Incongruent, incongruent responses.
00:35:00 Speaker 3
Right.
00:35:01 Patrick Martin
With the word how the world actually works, or even within the same household, seems like that would be a fitting.
00:35:08 Patrick Martin
Any book for a child who’s dealing with maybe a parent who’s a narcissist?
00:35:11 Patrick Martin
Or has, I should say, narcissistic traits?
00:35:13 Dr. Kelly
That’s what I say, too.
00:35:15 Dr. Kelly
I don’t really say it’s.
00:35:17 Dr. Kelly
I mean, it’s for the title ’cause.
00:35:18 Dr. Kelly
It’s catchier.
00:35:19 Dr. Kelly
But like I, I go right into that right away in the book, like I’m not ’cause people are gonna read it.
00:35:25 Dr. Kelly
And be like Oh my.
00:35:26 Dr. Kelly
God, am I embarrassed, you know?
00:35:28 Dr. Kelly
No, we all have narcissistic vulnerability from how we grew up and.
00:35:33 Dr. Kelly
Maybe traits, but like?
00:35:35 Dr. Kelly
I don’t know.
00:35:36 Dr. Kelly
I don’t, DSM.
00:35:38 Dr. Kelly
I’m not that any man anymore.
00:35:40 Patrick Martin
I yeah, it’s just a compass.
00:35:41 Patrick Martin
It’s just.
00:35:42 Patrick Martin
To give us a.
00:35:42 Patrick Martin
Ballpark idea what’s going on, right?
00:35:44 Dr. Kelly
And it’s more for us talking to each other like clinicians talk.
00:35:48 Dr. Kelly
It’s just shorthand.
00:35:50 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:35:51 Patrick Martin
And then, yeah, I mean again.
00:35:54 Patrick Martin
To be, you know, clear is really.
00:35:57 Patrick Martin
The way we find action, right?
00:35:58 Patrick Martin
And So what we’re talking about here is, you know.
00:36:01 Patrick Martin
Being mindful of the messages we’re getting, the modeling we’re getting from society, and finding out, you know, on a large scale, is that how the world actually works?
00:36:09 Patrick Martin
Or is this my just my microcosm?
00:36:11 Patrick Martin
In which case we need to change the way that we’re thinking our schema, as it’s called, right about how the world works and how we fit in the world, how we relate to the world, how the world relates to us, and so forth.
00:36:21 Patrick Martin
Assumptions, beliefs, rules, right?
00:36:26 Dr. Kelly
And I was calling I.
00:36:27 Dr. Kelly
I mean, I’ve been calling narcissism an epidemic, like.
00:36:32 Dr. Kelly
Way before the pandemic.
00:36:35 Dr. Kelly
American culture?
00:36:37 Dr. Kelly
We gotta do something about shame.
00:36:40 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:43 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, people don’t like themselves.
00:36:46 Dr. Kelly
It’s like so much self loathing and hiding and pretending.
00:36:52 Dr. Kelly
Such a bummer.
00:36:56 Patrick Martin
Now I read something on your site.
00:36:59 Patrick Martin
That just really jumped.
00:37:00 Patrick Martin
Out at me, Happy People act right everybody.
00:37:04 Dr. Kelly
I shut down.
00:37:05 Dr. Kelly
Not that that’s funny, because I don’t say things like right and wrong right, like DBT is about the grey, not the black and white that’s then.
00:37:13 Patrick Martin
Of course, right.
00:37:14 Dr. Kelly
So it’s funny that I see I said it and it caught on.
00:37:20 Dr. Kelly
And now I’m just kind of going with it like the doctor, JJ, you know?
00:37:20 Speaker 3
I think that’s right.
00:37:24 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, I.
00:37:26 Dr. Kelly
What did you?
00:37:27 Dr. Kelly
What was your reaction to that?
00:37:29 Patrick Martin
Well, like you said, my I didn’t jump to like, oh good bad, black and white.
00:37:34 Patrick Martin
I didn’t think of it in that sense.
00:37:35 Patrick Martin
I thought.
00:37:37 Patrick Martin
Even for my personal experience, when I feel small, when I feel like I’m containing, when I feel like I’m deferring other people.
00:37:44 Dr. Kelly
None of those are emotions.
00:37:46 Patrick Martin
Right, right, right.
00:37:47 Patrick Martin
Thank you.
00:37:48 Patrick Martin
When I have.
00:37:49 Patrick Martin
Done those things.
00:37:50 Dr. Kelly
But you felt what?
00:37:53 Patrick Martin
Especially when I was younger, right?
00:37:55 Patrick Martin
I would feel small, but that it means I would compromise my values.
00:37:57 Dr. Kelly
But smallsat?
00:37:58 Dr. Kelly
What does that mean, emotion wise?
00:38:01 Patrick Martin
It means that that would be the that would be the reaction or the compensatory behavior.
00:38:02 Dr. Kelly
Would you feel?
00:38:06 Dr. Kelly
To what fear?
00:38:09 Patrick Martin
Of abandonment, rejection, yeah, absolutely.
00:38:10 Dr. Kelly
OK.
00:38:12 Patrick Martin
Not being approved.
00:38:14 Patrick Martin
And validation.
00:38:14 Dr. Kelly
I do you see how hard it is for people?
00:38:18 Dr. Kelly
Even trained people to get to the emotions.
00:38:20 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes, absolutely.
00:38:23 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, it takes practice.
00:38:24 Speaker 3
Yes there does.
00:38:24 Dr. Kelly
Please go on.
00:38:26 Patrick Martin
Yeah, that’s what jumped out to me was like, Oh well, ’cause, I know you.
00:38:29 Patrick Martin
You you do a lot of shame work.
00:38:31 Patrick Martin
Self learn, self compassion, acceptance, and so if the kryptonite is shame.
00:38:38 Patrick Martin
You know, that makes sense because if we know, if we learn to love ourselves and be compassionate, confident.
00:38:44 Patrick Martin
Laugh at ourselves.
00:38:46 Patrick Martin
Are our shortcomings right to have a strong sense like resilience if we want to use that term?
00:38:53 Patrick Martin
Strong sense of self, then we will act.
00:38:57 Patrick Martin
With more intention.
00:38:59 Patrick Martin
As opposed to reactive.
00:39:00
Right.
00:39:02 Dr. Kelly
And we’ll be getting waves where we.
00:39:02 Patrick Martin
Be more authentic.
00:39:04 Dr. Kelly
Feel proud of ourselves.
00:39:07 Patrick Martin
Because I I’m a firm believer that when we make poor decisions, oftentimes it comes from a place of fear or shame.
00:39:15 Speaker 3
Right.
00:39:16 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, some unmanaged activated emotion I really like.
00:39:20 Dr. Kelly
Oh, it’s my trigger.
00:39:21 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, too bad your triggers are your responsibility to manage.
00:39:26 Dr. Kelly
There’s like an insinuation that I’m gonna change something.
00:39:28 Dr. Kelly
So, sorry, it’s not.
00:39:30 Dr. Kelly
How the world?
00:39:31 Dr. Kelly
Your triggers are your responsibility.
00:39:35 Dr. Kelly
I don’t know your entire.
00:39:37 Dr. Kelly
History and what words to stay away from ’cause your grandma said that to you.
00:39:42 Dr. Kelly
That’s not my responsibility.
00:39:46 Dr. Kelly
That’s a weird offloading of responsibility that is now passing as, like, emotional intelligence.
00:39:53 Dr. Kelly
And it’s ********.
00:39:56 Dr. Kelly
It’s a lot of like.
00:39:58 Dr. Kelly
Lot of ******** that is being passed off as like pseudo intelligence or pseudo emotional intelligence.
00:40:07 Dr. Kelly
You know, people get the jargon.
00:40:10 Dr. Kelly
But not in the discipline and the practice of it.
00:40:15 Dr. Kelly
That’s dangerous ignorance with when you could spot that.
00:40:20 Dr. Kelly
Easier to be like, Oh no.
00:40:22 Dr. Kelly
But now people are like.
00:40:25 Dr. Kelly
Gaslighting each other on the daily, whether they.
00:40:28 Dr. Kelly
Quit or that.
00:40:30 Dr. Kelly
That’s not cool.
00:40:32 Patrick Martin
Right, right.
00:40:35 Patrick Martin
Which is why this work is.
00:40:35 Patrick Martin
So important, you know.
00:40:38 Patrick Martin
Soft work, yeah, personal about it.
00:40:40 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, you can go inside when you’re.
00:40:42 Dr. Kelly
Full of ****.
00:40:44 Dr. Kelly
And you know, I’d.
00:40:45 Dr. Kelly
Say the kids.
00:40:45 Dr. Kelly
I’m like, you know.
00:40:46 Dr. Kelly
******** is a skill. It.
00:40:49 Dr. Kelly
Is and and you know sometimes you need it.
00:40:52 Dr. Kelly
I just want you to know when you’re doing it ’cause currently you’re believing all your own ********, and that’s really dangerous.
00:41:01 Speaker 3
Wow, that’s well put.
00:41:01 Dr. Kelly
But there’s so much shame about the skill part, right?
00:41:05 Dr. Kelly
That’s why I.
00:41:06 Dr. Kelly
See it like that?
00:41:07 Dr. Kelly
You know, teachers, parents, bosses.
00:41:10 Dr. Kelly
It’s gonna happen.
00:41:10 Dr. Kelly
Let’s get real.
00:41:11 Dr. Kelly
We’ve all done.
00:41:13 Dr. Kelly
And it’s not always a moral.
00:41:16 Dr. Kelly
Sometimes there.
00:41:17 Dr. Kelly
Are kind lies like she?
00:41:19 Dr. Kelly
It’s not all black and white, it’s according to your values, but instead of like pretending and portraying virtue.
00:41:28 Dr. Kelly
Come on, let’s let’s like at least take a look at our dark side.
00:41:32 Dr. Kelly
Right.
00:41:33 Dr. Kelly
And embrace some of.
00:41:34 Dr. Kelly
That too ’cause.
00:41:35 Dr. Kelly
You repress that, and then that **** comes out weird, and then you do things that are harmful to yourself and others.
00:41:42 Dr. Kelly
So just know that that the skill that comes.
00:41:46 Dr. Kelly
In handy, particularly in business, probably.
00:41:52 Dr. Kelly
And sometimes you use.
00:41:54 Dr. Kelly
It and you don’t.
00:41:56 Dr. Kelly
Live there.
00:41:57 Dr. Kelly
It’s a skill you put back in the box then and go back to authenticity and that kind of that can alleviate the shame talking about it in.
00:42:08 Dr. Kelly
That way too.
00:42:09 Patrick Martin
Hi, hi.
00:42:11 Patrick Martin
And I know emotional intelligence is a whole gamut of skills, right?
00:42:17 Patrick Martin
How would you you know for someone who’s not familiar with DBT or soft skills if you were, how would you define emotional intelligence?
00:42:26 Dr. Kelly
I would never.
00:42:27 Dr. Kelly
Claim soft skills.
00:42:29 Dr. Kelly
I would never.
00:42:29 Patrick Martin
It’s a good start.
00:42:32 Patrick Martin
I know that’s a debated term.
00:42:34
I think it’s.
00:42:36 Dr. Kelly
And I think that that’s like, not good either.
00:42:41 Dr. Kelly
Like like feminine is soft and easily manipulated or something like whatever with that, but yes.
00:42:47 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:42:48 Dr. Kelly
But what’s the question?
00:42:50 Patrick Martin
Well, for those who aren’t really familiar with the lingo, how would you define interpersonal?
00:42:56 Patrick Martin
Effectiveness or emotional intelligence?
00:43:00 Dr. Kelly
I’m well, those are two different.
00:43:03 Dr. Kelly
Like interpersonal effectiveness is one of the modules of emotional intelligence, the overarching umbrella.
00:43:10 Dr. Kelly
I think that.
00:43:14 Dr. Kelly
The interpersonal effectiveness module is basically just assertiveness training.
00:43:19 Dr. Kelly
But the best assertiveness training I’ve ever seen.
00:43:24 Dr. Kelly
In my career.
00:43:25 Dr. Kelly
So that’s in a nutshell what that is.
00:43:28 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, you know, I I put that one at the end, even though it comes second in like classic DBT, because I think you need the mindfulness, distress tolerance and the emotion regulation skills before you add the wild card.
00:43:45 Dr. Kelly
Of another person in there, so.
00:43:48 Patrick Martin
That’s true. Good, fine.
00:43:49 Dr. Kelly
No, I from the.
00:43:51 Dr. Kelly
Beginning put in interpersonal effectiveness last.
00:43:55 Dr. Kelly
In the teaching. Uhm.
00:43:58 Dr. Kelly
And it’s yeah, it’s how to ask for things, how to say no, how to get.
00:44:03 Dr. Kelly
Into conflict while you’re.
00:44:04 Dr. Kelly
Still scared instead of your anger is like circumventing the fear.
00:44:09 Dr. Kelly
And now you’re going to say something that makes it all go to hell in a handbasket like, again, but back to that’s what applied skills thing.
00:44:19 Dr. Kelly
As far as the.
00:44:20 Dr. Kelly
Mozart, not emotional intelligence, interpersonal effectiveness.
00:44:24 Dr. Kelly
It’s everybody just.
00:44:27 Dr. Kelly
Before you go into any interpersonal.
00:44:34 Dr. Kelly
Whether it be conflict or asking for something or saying no to somebody.
00:44:40 Dr. Kelly
Just define take one second.
00:44:43 Dr. Kelly
Actually maybe one minute to define.
00:44:46 Dr. Kelly
What is my objectives going into this interpersonal interaction if everybody just did that?
00:44:57 Dr. Kelly
That would really smooth a lot of crap out once you get nervous and now you’re in front of somebody.
00:45:08 Dr. Kelly
And you have no direction, and then it starts going bad and you’re like, oh, what the hell happened?
00:45:14 Dr. Kelly
How did?
00:45:14 Dr. Kelly
I get here.
00:45:15 Dr. Kelly
Like now I’m saying, **** I.
00:45:16 Dr. Kelly
Don’t even mean I’m causing their.
00:45:17 Patrick Martin
Gina, right, right.
00:45:19 Dr. Kelly
Relationship a lot of times just.
00:45:21 Dr. Kelly
A mindful, even guess.
00:45:25 Dr. Kelly
What is my objective going into this?
00:45:29 Dr. Kelly
Ask into this, say no into this conflict resolution.
00:45:33 Dr. Kelly
You’re taking responsibility for your half just by defining it.
00:45:38 Dr. Kelly
It’s so funny, you know, there are all these skills that seem very simple, and they are conceptually.
00:45:45 Dr. Kelly
And they all do like 5 different things.
00:45:50 Dr. Kelly
That you don’t even have to know for it.
00:45:52 Dr. Kelly
To do the things.
00:45:56 Dr. Kelly
So, just defining for yourself an objective?
00:45:59 Dr. Kelly
Simple is that.
00:46:01 Dr. Kelly
Simple who? How many?
00:46:01 Speaker 3
Right.
00:46:03 Dr. Kelly
What percentage of the population does that?
00:46:06 Dr. Kelly
Less than one would be my guess.
00:46:09 Dr. Kelly
So let’s change those numbers.
00:46:12 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:46:13 Patrick Martin
And it gives you an anchor, you know, and in my personal work when I, you know from a young, younger age, young adult when I was working on my social anxiety, that’s that’s what I did.
00:46:15 Dr. Kelly
Yes, it was.
00:46:23 Patrick Martin
You know, I would almost gamify it.
00:46:25 Patrick Martin
Like, my objective is to get a smile out of this person.
00:46:28 Patrick Martin
My objective is to learn two things about this person.
00:46:30 Patrick Martin
My objective is for them to learn one thing about me.
00:46:33 Patrick Martin
And I might.
00:46:33 Patrick Martin
Seem very kind of mechanical.
00:46:36 Patrick Martin
But it’s really not.
00:46:37 Patrick Martin
It’s giving you an anchor to hold onto in the in the next change, right?
00:46:41 Dr. Kelly
It’s practice is what it is.
00:46:43 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes, right.
00:46:44 Dr. Kelly
And when people say, oh, it’s mechanic is robotic or what isn’t, are people gonna what?
00:46:50 Dr. Kelly
Dude, that’s just your fear talking a you don’t know what the effect is going to be.
00:46:55 Dr. Kelly
We’re not outcome focused anyway.
00:46:57 Dr. Kelly
We’re we’re taking responsibility.
00:47:00 Dr. Kelly
For our values, our emotional experience, how we want to present ourselves, like just keep the spotlight on yourself and let the chips fall where?
00:47:09 Dr. Kelly
They may because.
00:47:10 Dr. Kelly
That person can.
00:47:11 Dr. Kelly
Be big can wile out or do whatever, punish you.
00:47:15 Dr. Kelly
It doesn’t matter is it would be great if they respected your ask.
00:47:20 Dr. Kelly
Or whatever.
00:47:21 Dr. Kelly
Try to maximize the chances of that.
00:47:23 Dr. Kelly
However, the more important thing is did I behave in a way.
00:47:27 Dr. Kelly
That I can walk away proud.
00:47:28 Dr. Kelly
Of whether I got what I wanted or not.
00:47:32 Dr. Kelly
That’s life, you know?
00:47:33 Patrick Martin
Absolutely no promises, right?
00:47:36 Patrick Martin
We can only control our actions, can’t change other people.
00:47:40 Patrick Martin
Can’t get too much, you know, if we get married to outcomes or get ourselves in trouble.
00:47:43 Dr. Kelly
Oh my gosh.
00:47:44 Patrick Martin
Disappointment, yeah.
00:47:46 Dr. Kelly
Plus it’s again an externally focused thing when we have to be internally focused.
00:47:53 Dr. Kelly
To be happy, I think.
00:47:55 Dr. Kelly
Maybe allow us to experience joy.
00:47:56 Patrick Martin
I would agree.
00:48:01 Patrick Martin
Well, thank you for that.
00:48:03 Patrick Martin
You really broke that down.
00:48:04 Patrick Martin
I love it.
00:48:05 Patrick Martin
I love the way that you frame these concepts.
00:48:08 Patrick Martin
That makes it very digestible for everyone who’s listening and.
00:48:12 Dr. Kelly
I appreciate that comment ’cause I work.
00:48:14 Dr. Kelly
Hard at that.
00:48:16 Patrick Martin
I can tell.
00:48:17 Patrick Martin
I can tell.
00:48:18 Patrick Martin
It does take a concerted effort to.
00:48:20 Patrick Martin
Really, to boil these principles down into, you know, digestible, easy to understand.
00:48:27 Dr. Kelly
Bytesize penaflor.
00:48:28 Patrick Martin
Flight size, yes, right, ’cause, that’s how we all.
00:48:31 Patrick Martin
Learn, isn’t it?
00:48:31 Patrick Martin
Yeah, now we all learn.
00:48:33 Patrick Martin
We all appreciate that.
00:48:34 Patrick Martin
I think when we.
00:48:36 Patrick Martin
Have the the curse of knowledge, or when you’re doing this stuff everyday, or maybe ’cause you’re more skillful in a particular area.
00:48:42 Patrick Martin
It’s easy to talk about things at least.
00:48:44 Patrick Martin
For me, easy for me to talk about.
00:48:45 Patrick Martin
Things in theory.
00:48:48 Patrick Martin
But then forgetting to break it down.
00:48:50 Patrick Martin
Into small, actionable steps for people.
00:48:52 Dr. Kelly
Nothing actionable steps, it’s.
00:48:54 Dr. Kelly
All about the practice of it, however small, and then acknowledge yourself.
00:48:59 Dr. Kelly
Validate your efforts, regardless of how they turned out.
00:49:02 Dr. Kelly
You tried something new.
00:49:04 Dr. Kelly
That’s a win.
00:49:06 Dr. Kelly
Even if it went to ****, it’s a win because you tried to do, you attempted to do a new thing and that takes courage, so.
00:49:09 Speaker 3
Right.
00:49:15 Patrick Martin
Absolutely like that that phrase we win, we.
00:49:16 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, right on.
00:49:18 Patrick Martin
Win and we learn.
00:49:21 Patrick Martin
There’s no losing, really.
00:49:22 Dr. Kelly
I don’t think so.
00:49:23 Patrick Martin
Just data, just statements.
00:49:24 Dr. Kelly
The cowardice?
00:49:25 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:49:27 Dr. Kelly
’cause that causes.
00:49:28 Dr. Kelly
And now we’re in the red.
00:49:34 Patrick Martin
Well, such a wealth of information I I could go on for hours with you.
00:49:38 Patrick Martin
This topic.
00:49:39 Dr. Kelly
It’s a fun this is a good time.
00:49:41 Patrick Martin
Yes, yes.
00:49:43 Patrick Martin
So if our listeners want to learn more about you, where should they?
00:49:46 Patrick Martin
Should they look?
00:49:48 Dr. Kelly
Doctor, JJ kelly.com. All my stuff is just DRJJKLL. Why not? Why?
00:49:55 Dr. Kelly
Just why the YouTube channel?
00:49:58 Dr. Kelly
The Instagram?
00:49:59 Dr. Kelly
My God, since I got over my generation X resistance to social media.
00:50:06 Dr. Kelly
Uhm, we have put out.
00:50:09 Dr. Kelly
So much stuff.
00:50:12 Dr. Kelly
Uhm on Instagram for free.
00:50:15 Dr. Kelly
The pandemic?
00:50:16 Dr. Kelly
We just loaded people up.
00:50:18 Dr. Kelly
Up with free info.
00:50:20 Dr. Kelly
And that’s exciting too.
00:50:22 Dr. Kelly
I mean, I get trolled, Hella trolled, but whatever, that’s funny too.
00:50:28 Dr. Kelly
But you learn a lot.
00:50:30 Dr. Kelly
From it.
00:50:32 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:50:32 Patrick Martin
So, so and I see I’m on your site here.
00:50:35 Patrick Martin
You have all your socials up here at the top you have.
00:50:37 Patrick Martin
A YouTube channel, yeah.
00:50:38 Dr. Kelly
Yep, Yep.
00:50:40 Dr. Kelly
Because I had somebody.
00:50:42 Dr. Kelly
I was in a contract where somebody else read the audiobook.
00:50:46 Dr. Kelly
Of the cutting.
00:50:47 Dr. Kelly
Book, and I hated it so much that I was I put out this thing on YouTube.
00:50:53 Dr. Kelly
I started the YouTube channel so that I could read my own book by my fire.
00:50:59 Dr. Kelly
Place and be.
00:50:59 Dr. Kelly
Like don’t buy my book.
00:51:00 Dr. Kelly
Talk. Let’s look at YouTube. My kids ’cause, she said. Hyperbowl. Dude, like, I’m from Wisconsin. I’m going to be 75 years old and people are still gonna be, like, busting my chops about hyperbowl. So anyway, I’ve redone it myself.
00:51:07 Speaker 3
Oh, OK.
00:51:19 Patrick Martin
Take matters into your own hands.
00:51:21 Dr. Kelly
I mean that that’s punkish it.
00:51:23 Dr. Kelly
So I, I stamp, yeah.
00:51:24 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:51:26
There you go.
00:51:27 Patrick Martin
Well, you certainly seem to have a deep well of information here.
00:51:31 Dr. Kelly
Funny year, Diana.
00:51:35 Patrick Martin
Courses, right?
00:51:38 Patrick Martin
Courses, courses, courses.
00:51:41 Patrick Martin
I’m all for equine therapy, but.
00:51:43 Dr. Kelly
I’d be down with that.
00:51:45 Dr. Kelly
I actually talked to a lady in Belfast that does that, talking about doing a team thing.
00:51:49 Dr. Kelly
I horses are great for people do that, but I would.
00:51:56 Patrick Martin
Podcast, audiobooks, courses.
00:52:00 Patrick Martin
All good stuff.
00:52:01 Patrick Martin
YouTube Channel book series.
00:52:05 Patrick Martin
Yeah, very good stuff.
00:52:07 Patrick Martin
Well, I I do appreciate the work you’re doing.
00:52:10 Patrick Martin
So much to learn, so much to to dive into.
00:52:13 Patrick Martin
Mixing yeah, yeah, if I ever wanted.
00:52:16 Patrick Martin
You back on to just share a.
00:52:17 Patrick Martin
Little more or dive into.
00:52:19 Dr. Kelly
Oh my gosh. Anytime. Seriously.
00:52:19 Patrick Martin
A blurry topic.
00:52:21 Patrick Martin
Oh, thank you.
00:52:22 Dr. Kelly
Yeah, my fault.
00:52:23 Patrick Martin
Preciate that, yeah.
00:52:25 Patrick Martin
You’ve been a blessing to our audience, and I appreciate your time.
00:52:28 Patrick Martin
Thank you so much, Doctor Kelly, and all the work.
00:52:31 Patrick Martin
You’re doing.
00:52:31 Dr. Kelly
Thank you. I appreciate.
00:52:33
That a lot.
00:52:33 Patrick Martin
Right.
00:52:34 Patrick Martin
Now I have one.
00:52:35 Patrick Martin
More tool in my toolbox to.
00:52:37 Patrick Martin
Here with everyone.
00:52:38 Patrick Martin
If you have any questions about DVT or anything in that genre, I know where to send them so.
00:52:43 Dr. Kelly
Nice. Welcome.
00:52:43 Patrick Martin
Thank you. Appreciate your work.
00:52:46 Patrick Martin
Alright, you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
00:52:48 Patrick Martin
Uh, stay happy and healthy.
00:52:51 Dr. Kelly
Thanks you too.
00:52:52 Patrick Martin
Thank you.
00:52:53 Dr. Kelly
It’s not.
00:52:54 Patrick Martin
Hey, if you’re getting value from this content and you haven’t done so already, be sure to like and subscribe to the YouTube channel and podcast to help raise mental health awareness.
00:53:02 Patrick Martin
And be sure to share it with friends and family.
00:53:04 Patrick Martin
All right?
00:53:05 Patrick Martin
Well, there you have it.
00:53:06 Patrick Martin
Another tool to help you thrive.
00:53:07 Patrick Martin
So until next time, make good things happen.
00:53:10 Patrick Martin
Bye now.
admin
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